Missing tailbone pad puts team in the playoffs

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by sloth

I have no problem making the big call when it is warrented. I do have a problem making a tickey tackey call that will impact the outcome of a game.

You never answered one of my questions. Had the coach not raised this as an issue (and you noticed on your own) would you have flagged it as a USC or would you have warned the player and made him become uniform compliant? Unless you would have thrown the flag without the coach promping you to do so, you got talked into a call.

Mr. Referee, my coach would like a time out to discuss the misapplication of a rule.

No to answer the preaching from above - yes, of course I've sent players off when they haven't been wearing the proper equipment. But I've never done so after being informed by a coach that a player who participated in the previous play wasn't wearing what's required.

You go explain to the coach why you're ignoring a rule that he seems to be well versed in.

[golfnref]

Originally Posted by sloth

As a referee, I would stop the play and send the kicker off to get a new tailbone pad. This is a safety foul and it needs to be fixed before the next play, but the 15yard USC is overkill. Lets not forget, we're out there to insure the players safety and to proveide a fair contest. We need to look for ways to have a good game and NOT impact the outcome.

And you would have rule justification for sending the player off as opposed to penalizing before participating. Rule 1-5-5 "when any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation". I too have sent players off when they entered without required equipment.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by golfnref

And you would have rule justification for sending the player off as opposed to penalizing before participating. Rule 1-5-5 "when any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation". I too have sent players off when they entered without required equipment.

And this is what I would've done and slept like a baby that night, too.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And this is what I would've done and slept like a baby that night, too.

Waking up every three hours, crying and looking for a breast to suck on?

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by golfnref

And you would have rule justification for sending the player off as opposed to penalizing before participating. Rule 1-5-5 "when any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation". I too have sent players off when they entered without required equipment.

Once again, why isn't anyone reading the bold print below 1.5.5 that says PENALTY????????????????

[Brett]

Originally Posted by daggo66

Once again, why isn't anyone reading the bold print below 1.5.5 that says PENALTY????????????????

You mean this text?

PENALTY: Unsportsmanlike conduct (Arts. 2, 3, 5) – (S27) — 15 yards. See 9-
8-1h. Failure to properly wear required equipment during a down (Art. 6) –
(S27, S23) – 5 yards. See 3-6-2d for failure to properly wear required
equipment when the ball is about to become live.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by daggo66

Once again, why isn't anyone reading the bold print below 1.5.5 that says PENALTY????????????????

We are reading the penalty, but we contend it does not apply because of of the wording in 1-5-1, where the mandatory equipment for individuals who participate is listed. If a substitute comes into the game, he has not participated and, therefore, the penalty is not applicable.

1-5-5 says he must have all required equipment before he is allowed to particpate and I will send him off to make those corrections.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I think if this player did not participate in the previous down, you have rule support from case book play 1.5.1G (a) to send the player off to have it corrected. If he did participate and you know for a fact he did, you don't have much choice on this by rule.

I agree and am posting the rule for those without access to a book.
1-5-5 "When any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation. An official’s time-out shall be declared to permit prompt repair of equipment which becomes illegal or defective through use. (See 3-5-2b, 5b and 7f)"

I do not think you can delay the ready in this situation. The equipment did not become illegal or defective through use. So I would go ahead with the ready. If they can get a pad in and get the ball snapped within 25, all is well. Otherwise, they can spend a timeout or take the delay penalty.

[ajmc]

Any statement can be taken to an extreme where it becomes counterproductive. "We need to look for ways to have a good game and NOT impact the outcome." is absolutely correct, unless of course, you extend it far beyond what it was intended to suggest.

We are absolutely "out there to do what is fair" as directed by the rules and our common sense application of those rules. Common sense and an understanding of why we're there may well be our most important contribution to the game. Managing the game in compliance with the rules is the stated objective, but not a single one of us, knows the rules so well that we can guarantee absolutely correct compliance in every situation, no matter how unique or rare.

Our role is to make decisions (hopefully informed decisions) instantly in response to any number of situations we may never have confronted before. We do not have the luxury of detailed perusal of the rules for each decision, other than what exists in our personal memory banks.

There will be times when those memory banks, including those of all crew mwmbers, simply don't produce a difinitive answer, and all we're left with is our own common sense, an understanding of the object of the game and a personal sense of fairness, to get us through.

Despite all the hype and pressure some choose to place on the outcome of any High School (even College or Professional) football game, it's not going to really effect how the sun comes up tomorrow.

[JasonTX]

Without seeing this player on the field and participating it I would have a hard time penalizing them at the point when the coach pointed it out. "Coach, we didn't catch it the play before but we are going to make sure it doesn't happen again." I've had games where pads did come out during the play. No foul there. Send them off and get it fixed.

[Jimmie24]

As an official we are to enforce the rules. I believe, but not being Merriam Webster, so I could be wrong but mandatory means that it must be worn. The penalty for the coach sending out a player without the mandatory equipment is the 15 yard USC. If we catch it during a play, we could always throw the 5 yard failure to wear penalty.

In my opinion, the officals were right at that time for the penalty. They have no choice but to enforce the rules as they are written. There is no room for philosphy here. Philosophy would have been earlier in the game and doing preventive officiating. Look at the players as the come on and off the field. If they would have noticed the kicker didn't have the pad, send him off early in the game. Fix the problem then. Obviously the other coaches saw it. Of course that could have been from watching film.

To me, that is a smart play by the coach.

[JamesBond]

Originally Posted by Jimmie24

As an official we are to enforce the rules. I believe, but not being Merriam Webster, so I could be wrong but mandatory means that it must be worn. The penalty for the coach sending out a player without the mandatory equipment is the 15 yard USC. If we catch it during a play, we could always throw the 5 yard failure to wear penalty.

In my opinion, the officals were right at that time for the penalty. They have no choice but to enforce the rules as they are written. There is no room for philosphy here. Philosophy would have been earlier in the game and doing preventive officiating. Look at the players as the come on and off the field. If they would have noticed the kicker didn't have the pad, send him off early in the game. Fix the problem then. Obviously the other coaches saw it. Of course that could have been from watching film.

To me, that is a smart play by the coach.

Player should be sent off to correct the problem if the play has not started.
I bet a quick look at both teams on the field will show at least one player with a shirt untucked. ; ) Call the penalty against both teams and get on with the game. 007

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I agree and am posting the rule for those without access to a book.
1-5-5 "When any required player equipment is missing or when illegal equipment is found, correction shall be made before participation. An official’s time-out shall be declared to permit prompt repair of equipment which becomes illegal or defective through use. (See 3-5-2b, 5b and 7f)"

I do not think you can delay the ready in this situation. The equipment did not become illegal or defective through use. So I would go ahead with the ready. If they can get a pad in and get the ball snapped within 25, all is well. Otherwise, they can spend a timeout or take the delay penalty.

You are forgetting that 1.5.5 comes with a USC penalty enforcement.