NFHS: IW with COP and foul

[grantsrc]

Play: QB drops back to pass and throws a forward pass that was deflected and intercepted by B. During the return, the LJ has a total brain fart and whistles the play dead. At the snap, A had an illegal formation.

NFHS Ruling? Please provide rules references.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Play: QB drops back to pass and throws a forward pass that was deflected and intercepted by B. During the return, the LJ has a total brain fart and whistles the play dead. At the snap, A had an illegal formation.

CANADIAN RULING:

B can accept A's foul and move A back 5 yards, and repeat the down, or B can decline A's foul and keep the ball at the point the ball was when the LJ's whistle sounded.

[LeRoy]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Play: QB drops back to pass and throws a forward pass that was deflected and intercepted by B. During the return, the LJ has a total brain fart and whistles the play dead. At the snap, A had an illegal formation.

NFHS Ruling? Please provide rules references.

If the LJ Whistled the play dead at the snap, how did that much action happen???

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by LeRoy

If the LJ Whistled the play dead at the snap, how did that much action happen???

Reread the original post. All the action happened prior to the whistle.

[johnSandlin]

Read page 50 which is Rule 4-2-3. This should be what you are asking about.

[refbuz]

This is perhaps the ONLY instance where the defense is not screwed by an IW. I don't have my books to cite actual rules but since the whistle was blown with B in possession, they are the offended team. Since the pall was possessed, there are 2 options for B. Take the ball where it was blown dead or replay the down.

Under normal circumstances, you would ignore the IW and look to enforce the foul, as the foul trumps the whistle. In this case though, the foul is immaterial as B would decline the formation foul and take the result of the play (interception).

B 1/10 @ yd line where play was blown dead.

Hope you got it right.

[GoodScout]

Had a similar one Saturday. Scrimmage kick was deflected, went about 10 yards past the LOS. R player picks it up off the ground and proceeds to run it in 17 yards for the score -- right after the first-year LJ blows his whistle as it's picked up. Since it was a loose ball play, we had to go back to the previous spot and re-kick. R coach was amazingly cool about it after we explained the rule and why we had to do what we did.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by refbuz

This is perhaps the ONLY instance where the defense is not screwed by an IW. I don't have my books to cite actual rules but since the whistle was blown with B in possession, they are the offended team. Since the pall was possessed, there are 2 options for B. Take the ball where it was blown dead or replay the down.

Under normal circumstances, you would ignore the IW and look to enforce the foul, as the foul trumps the whistle. In this case though, the foul is immaterial as B would decline the formation foul and take the result of the play (interception).

B 1/10 @ yd line where play was blown dead.

Hope you got it right.

Unfortunately we didn't. The foul screwed us up. Well, me blowing the whistle really screwed things up. Not a good deal overall.

[Warrenkicker]

So what did you do? I am guessing you forced B to accept the penalty and A had the ball again.

An IW or perceived IW will cause all logical thought to leave your head. The two can not coexist.

[ajmc]

Juist a suggestion, but sometimes NF: 2.43.4 ("Team designations (A and B, K and R) are retained until the ball is next marked ready for play.") causes some confusion.

Although A, B, K and R remain the same throughout any down, NF: 2.43.1 still governs who the "offense " is and who is therefore, the "defense".

In reference to NF: 4.2.3. a through c, all the options rest with the team (or player) in possession.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

Unfortunately we didn't. The foul screwed us up. Well, me blowing the whistle really screwed things up. Not a good deal overall.

It happens don't dwell on it too much, did it have an impact on the game?

Regardless, I can gurantee that you won't kick that one again.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

So what did you do? I am guessing you forced B to accept the penalty and A had the ball again.

An IW or perceived IW will cause all logical thought to leave your head. The two can not coexist.

Exactly. It happened early in the game and it looked like it wouldn't have an impact on the game. Of course the B player probably would've scored so it cost them a TD. But low and behold at the end of the game they lost by one score. Not cool at all.

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

Had a similar one Saturday. Scrimmage kick was deflected, went about 10 yards past the LOS. R player picks it up off the ground and proceeds to run it in 17 yards for the score -- right after the first-year LJ blows his whistle as it's picked up. Since it was a loose ball play, we had to go back to the previous spot and re-kick. R coach was amazingly cool about it after we explained the rule and why we had to do what we did.

Was the whistle blown before or after R possesed the ball?

The way you're describing the play makes it seem like the whistle came while R was in possession when the whistle was blown. If that was the case, why wouldn't R have the option to keep the ball at the dead-ball spot?

Don't confuse a "loose ball" (fumble, kick, or pass) with a loose ball play.
The only time that there are no options is when the whistle is blown while the ball is not in player possession. The fact that it was a loose ball play is irrelevent. The ball was possessed when the whistle was blown.

What if the IW came on a pass play? If it is blown during the pass BEFORE it is caught, the only option is to replay the down because nobody possessed the ball when the whistle was blown. Conversely, if it is blown AFTER the ball is caught the team in possession has the option to take the play or re-play the down.

[Warrenkicker]

I know what you mean about it being not cool Grant. A couple of games ago we had a play where the fullback was stripped right at the goal line and the defense was gone. It was my call and I had the offense over the line but a weak call on my part put a lot of doubt into minds. I got the call right and even the coach that the call went against couldn't dispute it on video. He said worse things about a clear pass interference earlier than my play. I was not happy with myself on that one either and I got it right.

By the way, the play was with 4 minutes left in the game with the team on offense up by 1. They missed the try and ended up winning the game by 7. That play really changed the game one way or another depending on if he got across the line.