D Holding on a CB during a Run?

[bcl1127]

I was working a youth game this weekend for 7th and 8th graders, and I was working with a non-state certified official and another one that was (yes, the youth games around here have more officials than our Freshman games). Well the wing comes in and tells the white hat that he had defensive holding on the CB on his side. Ok I thought, but then it struck me as it was a run up the middle, why would anyone call holding outside during a run up the middle? Is it even a penalty? I mean i guess it is as the guy said the CB had the WR in a bear hug, but really judgment would tell you not to flag it right? I know on a passing play if he was a receiver at the time, it would be illegal use of hands.

So am I way way way off base. I never really thought about this situation because it is something that not many people would call I would think.

[JugglingReferee]

I wouldn't call it. I'd also be using my voice telling B to not hold A.

If I was the WH, I would even pick up this flag, as it had no effect on the play.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I wouldn't call it. I'd also be using my voice telling B to not hold A.

If I was the WH, I would even pick up this flag, as it had no effect on the play.

I suggested that to the WH and he said that the other guy was so adamant about it because the league sent him a warning about calling holding the week before...Oh well. At least I was in the Umpire spot and not on a wing to hear about it.

PS with a three man crew do you guys like 2 wings and a ref, or 1 wing a U and an R?

[JugglingReferee]

CANADIAN MECHANIC:

R, U, HL.

I've heard of a place that rotated the U to LJ and HL to U if the LJ side is the short side, and then vice versa to keep the wing on the short side. We have the R take the open sideline.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by bcl1127

I was working a youth game this weekend for 7th and 8th graders, and I was working with a non-state certified official and another one that was (yes, the youth games around here have more officials than our Freshman games). Well the wing comes in and tells the white hat that he had defensive holding on the CB on his side. Ok I thought, but then it struck me as it was a run up the middle, why would anyone call holding outside during a run up the middle? Is it even a penalty? I mean i guess it is as the guy said the CB had the WR in a bear hug, but really judgment would tell you not to flag it right? I know on a passing play if he was a receiver at the time, it would be illegal use of hands.

So am I way way way off base. I never really thought about this situation because it is something that not many people would call I would think.

Did the hold have a material affect on the play is the question. From your description the answer is no. Therefore, the hold should not have been called.

The principle of material affect says if a foul does not cause any chnage in the result of the play do not call it. Therefore, fouls away from the point of attack especially on a running play should not be flagged.

What I would do is let the playyer holding know I saw it and he was lucky, of course, you were dealing with 13-14 year olds.

[jontheref]

Unless the guy tells me specifically its "pull and shoot" and the guy who got through made the tackle, I have to tell the guy to pick up the flag. Its been awhile since I have done youth games, but on the varsity level it has to be pretty substantial in order for me to let that call exist.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I wouldn't call it. I'd also be using my voice telling B to not hold A.

What if you'd done that a half-dozen times and the CB insists on continuing to bear hug the defender and throw him to the ground?

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Brett

What if you'd done that a half-dozen times and the CB insists on continuing to bear hug the defender and throw him to the ground?

If there were several warnings and the player was "thrown to the ground", I would consider a personal foul for unnecessary roughness.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

If there were several warnings and the player was "thrown to the ground", I would consider a personal foul for unnecessary roughness.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[BuckeyeRef]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

If there were several warnings and the player was "thrown to the ground", I would consider a personal foul for unnecessary roughness.

What if you've told the CB several times to quit holding. You've seen it and warned him. Despite this, he insists on holding onto the WR in a bear hug, nothing else. Would you call the hold or would you just continue to tell him to quit holding? I would think eventually you would have to call the hold or you are just issuing empty threats to the CB.

[Bad Mood Risin]

What would the offense want? To keep the CB away from the ball carrier.

If the CB is out there holding someone then he's not going to be making the tackle, right? So what's the issue. He took himself out of the play. I would think the offense would let that CB hold all day with no complaint.

Tell the other official that if an action outside the rules actually puts you at a disadvantge, LET IT GO.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by Bad Mood Risin

What would the offense want? To keep the CB away from the ball carrier.

If the CB is out there holding someone then he's not going to be making the tackle, right? So what's the issue. He took himself out of the play. I would think the offense would let that CB hold all day with no complaint.

Tell the other official that if an action outside the rules actually puts you at a disadvantge, LET IT GO.

I agree with this. If you think about it, it might actually hurt the D more to have the guy out there holding on to to WR and not moving to the ball.

If I were the WH in the game, I would have not called it, but alas I was not.

[rngrck]

Letting the players know you'll be watching always works for me when I see these contacts happen away from the ball and especially after a dead ball. If it happens again, I'll bang him.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by Brett

What if you'd done that a half-dozen times and the CB insists on continuing to bear hug the defender and throw him to the ground?

There shouldn't have been a third time.