Wrong Ball Play

[MrUmpire]

Remember the video of the play where the center yells, “Coach this is the wrong ball”. He then hands the ball to the QB with a legal snap. The QB then walks to the sideline under the guise of getting the right ball. Once he gets outside all the Team B players he turns up field and runs for a touchdown?

If I remember correctgly, it was decided that the play was not legal because of 9-5-1b which stated that, “Any action or verbiage used to deceive the defense into thinking that the ball is not about to become live”, is an unsportsmanlike foul.

I can’t find that language in this year’s rule book. Would that make the play legal?

[BktBallRef]

It's in the Case Book, not the Rule Book. Look under Unfair Acts.

[DesertZebra]

I saw this in a game last year in the playoffs of a pee-wee league. I was working LJ on the side of the team running the play. We, as officials, had no prior knowledge of the play before it was run. I recognized it as it was going on. The play ran (for a touchdown) and then all hell broke loose. I threw a flag, for USC, but in the huddle the R overruled me. He allowed the TD to count. That team went on to lose the game, and deservingly so I feel. I'm still mad that I let the play go when I 'read' it. Had I blown it dead the R could have still overruled me, but the team wouldn't be rewarded with a touchdown.

[BktBallRef]

I hope you sent him a copy of the case play.

[mbyron]

Would any of you opt for killing it (with an officials' time out to "change the ball" (and scold the coach)) rather than flagging it for USC? Would it make a difference if the kids were 10? 14? 18?

[daggo66]

That video you refer to is clearly an illegal snap. It must be one quick continuous motion in a backward direction. As soon as the center stood up with the ball it was a snap infraction.

[Warrenkicker]

You might be right about it being an illegal snap. We have the requirement that "2-40-2...In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous backward motion of the ball during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s)
of the snapper..."

This original play had a motion that may or may not have been quick. It is hard to say exactly what is quick.

It appeared to be a continuous motion though some may feel it wasn't. I know they tried to make it continuous.

It was a backward motion. Our rule definitions say that if a movement with the ball is not forward then it is backward. This ball movement was not forward so it had to be backward.

Did the ball immediately leave the snapper's hand? At the end of his motion he gave it to a back and didn't hold on to it for a while. I believe it did leave his hand immediately upon reaching the back.

So I feel the only question about this snap is if you call it quick. I have always felt this was a legal snap. Perhaps you don't and that is fine. They checked it all out with the officials that night and it was decided that it was all legal then. Rules were changed/clarified after that night. And though we know the play is now clearly illegal today it is much less clear that it was illegal that night. The rules writers may like to think it was illegal back then but obviously is wasn't clear enough to those enforcing the rules to keep them from running that play.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by DesertZebra

I saw this in a game last year in the playoffs of a pee-wee league. I was working LJ on the side of the team running the play. We, as officials, had no prior knowledge of the play before it was run. I recognized it as it was going on. The play ran (for a touchdown) and then all hell broke loose. I threw a flag, for USC, but in the huddle the R overruled me. He allowed the TD to count. That team went on to lose the game, and deservingly so I feel. I'm still mad that I let the play go when I 'read' it. Had I blown it dead the R could have still overruled me, but the team wouldn't be rewarded with a touchdown.

According to the case book you should have blown it dead right away and then penalized USC. You can't let this play continue.

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

Our rule definitions say that if a movement with the ball is not forward then it is backward. This ball movement was not forward so it had to be backward.

References? What about "up". The center cannot lift the ball up and then snap it back. In the video he comes up and turns sideways to hand the ball back. "Up" is not forward, but it is certainly not backward either.

[trocared]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Would any of you opt for killing it (with an officials' time out to "change the ball" (and scold the coach)) rather than flagging it for USC? Would it make a difference if the kids were 10? 14? 18?

Again, if I could be so bold, the next time a coach uses this play, I vote he gets strung up in the town square with a sign that reads, "I AM AN IDIOT".
cheers,
tro

[daggo66]

"I got a new play. It's called the Sergeant York."

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by daggo66

References? What about "up". The center cannot lift the ball up and then snap it back. In the video he comes up and turns sideways to hand the ball back. "Up" is not forward, but it is certainly not backward either.

Well we probably won't agree. He stood up and in one motion took the ball from the ground to the QBs hands. The ball never went forward. "Up" is not a direction that we care about. Backward or forward we do care about. If it isn't moving forward then it is moving backward. Those are the only two directions we have. And I could see your point about "up" if the snap changed directions while in the snapper's hands. I don't see an up then back, I see an up and back movement.

[DesertZebra]

Originally Posted by Jim D

According to the case book you should have blown it dead right away and then penalized USC. You can't let this play continue.

I know. I kicked myself in the *** for weeks for letting it go off. One of the other 3 officials should have blown it dead, too. I am still upset with the white hat for not correcting it though.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jim D

According to the case book you should have blown it dead right away and then penalized USC. You can't let this play continue.

It doesn't matter. The foul occurs prior to the snap. So even if you fail to kill it, the play never happened.

[JugglingReferee]

Does anyone have a Fed citation for the "wrong ball" play being illegal?