Measurement

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

For NFHS rules the ball cannot, by rule, be substituted. You can only replace a ball at the start of a series.

Huh? THEY cannot substitute a ball, but we most certainly can. You chase long incomplete passes downfield instead of getting a ball from the ball boy? What if the weather's wet, you never bring in a dry football?

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Huh? THEY cannot substitute a ball, but we most certainly can. You chase long incomplete passes downfield instead of getting a ball from the ball boy? What if the weather's wet, you never bring in a dry football?

The rule is pretty specific NFHS 1-3-2 and Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A. The intent of the rule is that once you start a series that particular ball must be used for the entire series. Notice the Case Book cites four different situations (1) requesting a rubber ball on 2nd down after using a leather ball on 1st, (2) requesting a different leather ball for 4th down on a dry day (3) requests a different leather ball for the try (4) A recovers on a kickoff. Only 4 is allowed.

NFHS 1-3-3 does allow changing balls during a down if the ball is wet.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The rule is pretty specific NFHS 1-3-2 and Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A. The intent of the rule is that once you start a series that particular ball must be used for the entire series. Notice the Case Book cites four different situations (1) requesting a rubber ball on 2nd down after using a leather ball on 1st, (2) requesting a different leather ball for 4th down on a dry day (3) requests a different leather ball for the try (4) A recovers on a kickoff. Only 4 is allowed.

NFHS 1-3-3 does allow changing balls during a down if the ball is wet.

Yup. All of those are places where the TEAM requests a change. Again, I can change it at any time. Nothing stops ME from doing so. We do it all the time, when the ball is incomplete deep.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The rule is pretty specific NFHS 1-3-2 and Case Book 1.3.2 Situation A. The intent of the rule is that once you start a series that particular ball must be used for the entire series. Notice the Case Book cites four different situations (1) requesting a rubber ball on 2nd down after using a leather ball on 1st, (2) requesting a different leather ball for 4th down on a dry day (3) requests a different leather ball for the try (4) A recovers on a kickoff. Only 4 is allowed.

NFHS 1-3-3 does allow changing balls during a down if the ball is wet.

Once again, by failing to understand the intent of a rule, an official creates problems for himself and the game.

The intent of the rule is specific: It prohibits the TEAMS from requesting a change of ball. It DOES NOT prohibit the officials from substituting a new ball when appropriate. Bringing one in after a long incomplete where the ball bounds another 20 plus yards out of bounds to keep the flow of the game moving is very appropriate.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Once again, by failing to understand the intent of a rule, an official creates problems for himself and the game.

The intent of the rule is specific: It prohibits the TEAMS from requesting a change of ball. It DOES NOT prohibit the officials from substituting a new ball when appropriate. Bringing one in after a long incomplete where the ball bounds another 20 plus yards out of bounds to keep the flow of the game moving is very appropriate.

Not to belabor the point but the rule is designed to keep teams from getting their favorite ball in on certain situations. Read the NFHS Officials' Manual page 67 III.B.5.c as it says nothing about getting a new ball.

Officials can replace balls when wet but dry balls must be used for the entire series.

That is the rule as it applies to the game including officials.

But I do like and wish we could use the procedure you use.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Not to belabor the point but the rule is designed to keep teams from getting their favorite ball in on certain situations.

Exactly. It is NOT about prohibiting an official from substituting a ball.

Glad we can agree.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Exactly. It is NOT about prohibiting an official from substituting a ball.

Glad we can agree.

It is not that we are in agreement it is just that I like the way you replace balls. But I would not do it and know that it is incorrect according to NFHS Rules -- in your area this may be the practice although incorrect.

Again, the rules I quoted from NFHS and the Officials Manual dictate a ball stays for an entire series and NOWHERE does it give officials the authority to replace balls during a series unless the ball is wet.

[ajmc]

Sometimes it's easy to read more into a rule than is intended. A team is limited from substituting a ball within a series of downs, but there is no prohibition, or limit, relating to officials substituting a ball when circumstances dictate, because such a prohibition would be impractical and serve no rational purpose.

As long as the ball being substituted is an approved ball, which can either be a ball approved prior to the game, or any ball approved for use during the game, even if at the moment of exchange.

Above all else, the sensible application of rules requires common sense.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

It is not that we are in agreement it is just that I like the way you replace balls. But I would not do it and know that it is incorrect according to NFHS Rules -- in your area this may be the practice although incorrect.

Again, the rules I quoted from NFHS and the Officials Manual dictate a ball stays for an entire series and NOWHERE does it give officials the authority to replace balls during a series unless the ball is wet.

Using your misguided and incorrect logic, an official couldn't replace a ball that became deflated or even lost. The game would end.

It seems strange you can take part of the rule, that portion that limits replacing a ball, so literally, but you don't take the part the specifically refers to the TEAM, and no one else, as literally.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the rules that prohibits the official from replacing a ball for any reason. Nothing.

I am amazed that someone with the education you allege could be so void of logic.