Little help

#1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 12:10pm

The players on the field realized *wink-wink* that they had 12 players.

"Johnny what are you doing, get off the field".

Keep in mind, I already counted 11 and signaled with the Ump.

Coaching staff: "what are you doing get off the field".

He gets pretty close to being off the field & darts 20 yards downfield where he is hit with a bullet & scores 6.

mbyron · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 12:14pm

Deceit as such is not illegal. If the player met the formation requirements mentioned by Rich above, then the play is legal, play on.

What rule do you think team A violated?

Mike L · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 12:19pm

It is illegal participation to use a player in a substitution or pretended substitution to decieve opponents at or before the snap. Live ball, previous spot, 15 yds.

#4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron

Deceit as such is not illegal

Oh really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike L

It is illegal participation to use a player in a substitution or pretended substitution to decieve opponents at or before the snap. Live ball, previous spot, 15 yds.

So not USC but IP instead, 15 yds from LOS & repeat 4th down in this sitch??

Gmoore · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 12:49pm

3.7.3 SITUATION A: B11 mistakenly believes he is his team's 12th player and
leaves the field before the snap (a) on his opponent's sideline, or (b) on his sideline
and enters his team box. B11 then discovers his error and returns to field on
his team's side of the neutral zone before the snap. RULING: In (a) B11 has committed
illegal substitution by leaving on the opponent’s sideline. (3-7-2) In (b),
there is no foul as long as B11 remains a player. (2-32-1) If done intentionally to gain an advantage, it is an illegal participation foul or it could be an unsportsmanlike foul. If B11 returns to the field after the snap in either (a) or (b) and participates,it is a live-ball foul for illegal participation. (9-5-1f; 9-6-4 a and d)

Theisey · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town

..
....
Coaching staff: "what are you doing get off the field".

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

Rich · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

Bingo.

Robert Goodman · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as the coach uses those words, he has stepped over the line.

You don't know that until the play develops. The coach could easily just have been mistaken.

Quote:

Classic example of CB 9.9.3.Sit-B

Kill this play IMMEDIATELY and hit for 15 yards.

What does "immediately" mean? You don't know it's intentional until the player at least turns upfield.

Robert

Theisey · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 01:25pm

As soon as it's snapped.. !

Of course the coach could be wrong.. but he's not!. He's making the other
team think he's wrong and that there is a problem he needs to correct.
It's BS all the way.

daggo66 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 01:40pm

Robert, when you're on the field and this happens, it's very obvious the coach is not simply mistaken.

#11 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66

Robert, when you're on the field and this happens, it's very obvious the coach is not simply mistaken.

Especially when you counted/signaled 11 prior to the BS unfolding. It was so rehearsed

So whether it's IP or USC the result is the same, 15 yrds & repeat the down?

daggo66 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 01:54pm

USC, even when it occurs during a play, is always administered as a dead ball foul.

Robert Goodman · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 15, 2008, 11:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey

As soon as it's snapped.. !

I doubt that. The player could still be ostensibly exiting, moving toward the sideline, as the ball is snapped, probably not turning upfield until after the snap. Are you allowed to kill the play at that time?

I've been on the sideline enough to know that the coaching staff can all be mistaken and pull one of 11 off the field.

Robert

wolfgang70 · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 16, 2008, 01:17am

If that's the case then the player wouldn't have turned upfield for the play. USC, blow it dead. Don't allow this play to develop.

How can it be IP though? If there are 11 players on the field then by definition it's not IP right? Unless he didn't check at the numbers but, unless I'm reading wrong, he came from the direction of the huddle. As long as the formation is correct then there wouldn't be a problem as long as the player left the field and didn't come back right?

Robert Goodman · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 16, 2008, 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgang70

If that's the case then the player wouldn't have turned upfield for the play. USC, blow it dead. Don't allow this play to develop.

But you don't see the player turn upfield until the ball is in play. I take your answer to mean, yes, you are empowered to blow it dead after the play begins.

Robert