PAC10 Supervisor Discusses BYU-WA Call

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by ajmc

but having seen the play live, the player DID NOT "throw the ball high into the air', he threw it over his right shoulder, backwards, straight down to the ground.

What?

So the video of him throwing the ball high into the air is lying?

[insatty]

The calling official, Mike McCabe, is an excellent official. But hearing Dave Cutaia speak numerous times at Camp, my interpretation of his statment is that the call is defensible by rule but shouldn't have been made. I would bet he graded it internally as a "marginal call."

Look for this call to be discussed in Dave Parry's training tape next year.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

So that's the genesis? Because it delays the game? By how much? Four seconds? The same celebration with no ball anywhere but dropped two feet onto the ground wouldn't have delayed the game any more than what actually happened.

Marv Levy's "overofficious jerk" would apply here, methinks. Not to the official making the call, but to the whole concept. I mean, come on.

Not when the rule is so specific and outlaws a very specific act. The officials did not make up a situation and then decide it fit a vague rule. This rule is so specific that if they did not call this unsportsmanlike, someone would have accused the Pac-10 officials of favoring their conference team. Remember the Oklahoma-Oregon game a few years back?

Peace

[JRutledge]

Committee Person speaks out

It seems the NCAA Football Committee is also backing this call.

"I try to tell my team, when you score, just hand the ball to the nearest official. That's all you're supposed to do. We want the officials to enforce the rules. Well, the rule's right there in the rulebook."

From the article:

When asked if the official should have used his judgment and let the play go, Edsall said the celebration rule has "been harped on as a point of emphasis" for the past several months. The official, Edsall said, had no choice but to call it or risk being suspended.

"I don't think it's taken any fun out of the game," Edsall said. "It just bothers me sometimes to hear people come on TV and say, 'How can you call that?' Well, the guy was doing his job."

I guess the NCAA does not agree with many here.

Peace

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by insatty

The calling official, Mike McCabe, is an excellent official. But hearing Dave Cutaia speak numerous times at Camp, my interpretation of his statment is that the call is defensible by rule but shouldn't have been made. I would bet he graded it internally as a "marginal call."

Look for this call to be discussed in Dave Parry's training tape next year.

I have seen 3 different articles, each claiming a different official flagged. One said it was McCabe, one said it was the B and one said it was the L (that article said the L was chased off the field by a Washington coach after the game)

Do you know who actually flagged?

I have heard there is a long-standing resistance by the PAC10 to any sort of combined officiating organization, so perhaps they (Cutaia) are saying they really do not care what Parry says.

[mbyron]

I don't know 7-man mechanics. The official on the near side, back of the endzone, threw the flag.

[JugglingReferee]

The F threw the flag. Seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igjgUKP3Uhc

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

So that's the genesis? Because it delays the game? By how much? Four seconds? The same celebration with no ball anywhere but dropped two feet onto the ground wouldn't have delayed the game any more than what actually happened.

I'm sorry but I must have missed the rule that states it's illegal to drop the ball to the ground. Could you please point it out for me?

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry guys, I always give the benefit of the doubt to the field official who is reacting to something he sees in a split second. I can't this time. That call may have been justified by weasel wording the rule, but having seen the play live, the player DID NOT "throw the ball high into the air', he threw it over his right shoulder, backwards, straight down to the ground. It many have bounced high, but that was not visible.

Partner, you are truly clueless. I'd suggest you watch the play because you obviously haven't. The ball is tossed in the air and almost hits him in the head 3-4 seconds later.

Toss a ball over your shoulder and see if it takes 4 seconds to land AND see if it hits you in the head.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I'm sorry but I must have missed the rule that states it's illegal to drop the ball to the ground. Could you please point it out for me?

I don't even know what you are saying here.

I'm not questioning the call or that the rule exists.

I'm questioning why the rule exists. If it's delay of game, that seems pretty specious to me (and why it would then be 15 yards if it's not about showboating or grandstanding and not just 5 like every other delay of game I've ever heard of, I don't know).

The call was (obviously) correct by rule. That's the way your bosses (conference, supervisor, crew chief) want it called, you call it or you do something else with your leisure time. I get that. Harsh call. Unfortunate call. Brings unwarranted attention to what we do in a negative light and lets loose every columnist who's never officiated a snap in his life, yet who writes 600 words about how we do what we do and how every call is a judgment call despite the fact they've never ever sat in a rules meeting or had our mechanics explained to them.

I'm just saying I don't quite grasp why the rule exists in that form with the idea of it being called to cover that situation. I'm pretty conservative by nature, but I just don't see what harm was caused.

[TXMike]

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_video/NCAAN...3/19830817.pdf

The rule was written into the rulebook apparently in 1983. (See page 7 of the linked document)

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I'm just saying I don't quite grasp why the rule exists in that form with the idea of it being called to cover that situation. I'm pretty conservative by nature, but I just don't see what harm was caused.

If the ball had bonked an opponent or an official on the head when it came down, would you concur with flagging that?

[ajmc]

Excuse me "Over&Back", in the u-tube video, although somewhat conjested when the ball is released, it does look like it was thrown in the air. Watching the game LIVE there was a completely different, unimpeded, much closer view and it appeared he threw the ball over his shoulder, and it went directly down.

Needless to say, there were several repeats of the end of the play offered by the network, and they all looked the same. U-tube vs Network coverage, you be the judge.

If the ball was thrown high up in the air, I've got no problem with the call that was made, but that's not what I saw (or believe I saw) in which case although the call may well have been technically correct, I don't think it was right.

[TXMike]

You don't suppose the networks realize that by showing the tight shot they can manipulate opinions do you??? The media are the ones who are the most vocal whiners right now about the call. The video has to support what the talking heads are saying to enhance their credibility.

The one camera shot that I have seen which has the true perspective is the one from the press box watching from a wide angle as Locker tumbled into the EZ and then hopped up and launching the ball underhanded. If you have not seen that then you have not seen what really happened.

And as the physics gurus here have shown the ball had to have been launched 15 - 30 feet high based on how long it took from release until it came down into view again.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by insatty

But hearing Dave Cutaia speak numerous times at Camp, my interpretation of his statment is that the call is defensible by rule but shouldn't have been made. I would bet he graded it internally as a "marginal call."

I've heard Dave speak numerous times as well and that is not my impression.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If the ball was thrown high up in the air, I've got no problem with the call that was made, but that's not what I saw (or believe I saw) in which case although the call may well have been technically correct, I don't think it was right.

Then you have no problem with the call. The ball was at my eye level 25 rows up.
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