BYU - Washington

[IceGator8]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

You obviously haven't read or heard any of the comments that have come from the UW football program. Willingham, Locker, the AD at UW - they've all said it was the correct call and Locker has taken full responsibility for throwing the ball. He said he knows better and is ashamed of himself for hurting his team. So just because the talking heads on ESPN are idiots doesn't mean the whole world is going to hell.

Actually Willingham whined considerably about the call during the post game show. I have a hunch he toned things down when he got to see the video.


BTW JRutledge, this is not a judgement call. The NCAA rule said you can't throw the ball "high" in the air. This call could have been thrown ten to fifteen feet lower and still been high. This one will get called every single time. If the official doesn't he is negligent.

[ajmc]

If you're in this game long enough you will absolutely make calls, that after personal review, you wish you could take back. Given the circumstances, although this call may very well stand the test of instant review from a strict compliance viewpoint, I suspect the covering official would like another chance on this play.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If you're in this game long enough you will absolutely make calls, that after personal review, you wish you could take back. Given the circumstances, although this call may very well stand the test of instant review from a strict compliance viewpoint, I suspect the covering official would like another chance on this play.

I beg to differ. I bet this wasn't the first time he's flagged this type of action. After all the criticism that officials in bowl game took last year there has been a push to not ignore these type of actions. Hand the ball to the official and go to your sideline and celebrate all you want.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If you're in this game long enough you will absolutely make calls, that after personal review, you wish you could take back. Given the circumstances, although this call may very well stand the test of instant review from a strict compliance viewpoint, I suspect the covering official would like another chance on this play.

Don't assume you know what someone else thinks when the man hasn't said a word.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If you're in this game long enough you will absolutely make calls, that after personal review, you wish you could take back. Given the circumstances, although this call may very well stand the test of instant review from a strict compliance viewpoint, I suspect the covering official would like another chance on this play.

And I suspect he knows he got it right the first time, so there is no need for a second chance. This exact action is spelled out in the rule and this play should be used as an example to college officials of what actions are to be penalized.

The big loss to the Ducks last week, as well as what Oklahoma, USC, et al. will do to UW, will be what costs Willingham his job if he is fired.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If you're in this game long enough you will absolutely make calls, that after personal review, you wish you could take back. Given the circumstances, although this call may very well stand the test of instant review from a strict compliance viewpoint, I suspect the covering official would like another chance on this play.

Only if he doesn't want to work for his conference any more.

[JugglingReferee]

Is there significant coaches' input to NCAA rules, just as there is in other leagues?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Is there significant coaches' input to NCAA rules, just as there is in other leagues?

Unless someone can tell me the background of Redding, all NCAA Committee members are coaches or former coaches. Same applies in other sports committees with the NCAA.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless someone can tell me the background of Redding, all NCAA Committee members are coaches or former coaches. Same applies in other sports committees with the NCAA.

Just as I suspected! Tx.

[mbyron]

Regarding "judgment calls": there are at least 2 kinds of judgment.
1. Judging whether a rule applies: this kind of judgment will be required of officials at every moment of every game, since we're always judging whether what we see falls within the rules. This is probably what the PAC-10 supervisor was thinking when he said that every call (and non-call) is a judgment call. This is not judgment in an interesting sense.
2. Judging whether a particular criterion applies to a case: the NCAA USC rule mentions throwing the ball "high" in the air, which it does not define. Without a definition, officials must rely on their judgment regarding what constitutes "high" (or indeed many other forms of USC).

The second kind of judgment is harder to develop and does not apply to every case. We have either explicit or implicit definitions of catch, fumble, muff, etc. Think of it this way: you can overturn a ruling of "catch," but you can't overturn a ruling of "high."

The OP required both kinds of judgment, and IMHO the official was clearly correct to rule that the ball was thrown high in the air, and so correct to throw the flag. Had some guts, too, in addition to good judgment.

I think that there will be a lot of meetings with skill position players this week to make sure they know this rule! I doubt NCAA will abandon the rule...

Regarding gravity: there's no such thing. The earth sucks.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless someone can tell me the background of Redding, all NCAA Committee members are coaches or former coaches. Same applies in other sports committees with the NCAA.

Peace

REPLY: JRutledge...Dr. Redding was not only an outstanding official with several bowl appearances, but he is also a professor of physics.

http://www.footballofficialscamp.com...ing_rogers.htm

So, he can even help us by explaining the physics of projectile motion and why the time to reach apex is the same as the time to fall back to earth. But...his position on the Rules Committee is not as an official but rather as the Secretary-Editor of the NCAA rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IceGator8

BTW JRutledge, this is not a judgement call. The NCAA rule said you can't throw the ball "high" in the air. This call could have been thrown ten to fifteen feet lower and still been high. This one will get called every single time. If the official doesn't he is negligent.

Well the NCAA Coordinator said it was a judgment call. And considering that the rule does not get specific about how high or what is or is not a foul that is a judgment call. Now it might not be a difficult judgment call, but it is clear that some officials might have passed on this if they were in the situation for all kinds of reasons. If that is your logic, I could say a foot in the air is "high" and justify any throwing of the ball despite how "high" the ball goes. And it will not get called every time and I am sure it has not been called just this year every time.

Peace

[TXMike]

What he said was that EVERY call is a judgment call.