No one saw it!

[trocared]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: In reading through the thread, no one has said to rule the try unsuccessful. For those that might be thinking that, but have not posted, answer this simple rhetorical question: If the Team A coach asked you where (on what yardline) the ball became dead, what would you tell him??

no speakie englisse

[The Cynic]

Alright guys... here is the infamous play. Parepat has provided most of the details correctly with an exception or two. You will see the back judge run in (not just stand there), but he never locates the ball carrier.

I am curious... do you think he gets in or not?

When you click on the link, you will find that the quality is bad but underneath the video is an option to "watch in high quality", sometimes it will let you do that and other times it won't. Either way, watch #21 get up in the endzone and the officials' handling of the situation.

I hope it is something that everyone can learn from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9V7aRFLYc

[Jim D]

The LJ comes in to mark a spot, although, according to the posts, he didn't have one. The BJ comes up, but then he takes root so two of the crew are firmly holding their spots although they have no reason to do so. They won't come over to the R to talk, but he won't come to them either. Although there was a lot of confusion, they seem content to discuss this at a distance with the teams right in the middle of the discussion. This crew looked like they didn't even try to get this right.

[ajmc]

After looking at the u-tube video several times, it appears the ball carrier #21goes into a pile, and the pile goes down, after which #21 resurfaces in the EZ. Without knowing what was being said between the two wing men, who were obviously talking to each other, it's hard to know what was being discussed.

Based on the results of the play, it appears at least one of them had him down before the goal line. The fact that neither left where they were standing, suggests where they were standing was the spot, which was shy of the goal line. If anything one, or both wing officials, should have "sold" their spot a lot harder.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by ajmc

After looking at the u-tube video several times, it appears the ball carrier #21goes into a pile, and the pile goes down, after which #21 resurfaces in the EZ. Without knowing what was being said between the two wing men, who were obviously talking to each other, it's hard to know what was being discussed.

Based on the results of the play, it appears at least one of them had him down before the goal line. The fact that neither left where they were standing, suggests where they were standing was the spot, which was shy of the goal line. If anything one, or both wing officials, should have "sold" their spot a lot harder.

As previously stated in earlier posts, the linesman could not find the ball and did not have a spot. He is standing at the spot (why, we don't know) and asking the umpire where the ball is. The line judge is never seen in this video. The other official near the goal line is the umpire. The line judge also did not see the ball nor have a spot.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by The Cynic

Alright guys... here is the infamous play. Parepat has provided most of the details correctly with an exception or two. You will see the back judge run in (not just stand there), but he never locates the ball carrier.

I am curious... do you think he gets in or not?

When you click on the link, you will find that the quality is bad but underneath the video is an option to "watch in high quality", sometimes it will let you do that and other times it won't. Either way, watch #21 get up in the endzone and the officials' handling of the situation.

I hope it is something that everyone can learn from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9V7aRFLYc

1. Why are the officials standing 8 yards apart with the teams in between them while they figure out what happened?

2. Why are there 2 coaches all the way out in the middle of the field. They should be off the field and not closer than the 25 yard line, but they are in the middle of the field on the 2 yard line. That is approximately 58 yards away from where they should be. I hope there were 2 sideline warnings issued.

[The Cynic]

Originally Posted by LDUB

2. Why are there 2 coaches all the way out in the middle of the field. They should be off the field and not closer than the 25 yard line, but they are in the middle of the field on the 2 yard line. That is approximately 58 yards away from where they should be. I hope there were 2 sideline warnings issued.

No sideline warnings were issued. I will say this... the one thing that the video does is seem to speed up time. By this, I mean that the drama surrounding the situation made everything seem to last at least twice as long.

Keep in mind that this is a rivalry game that has seen the winner go to the playoffs each of the last 4 years while the loser has stayed home (eventhough it is week one game).

I know that doesn't mean much in the eyes of the officiating world, but as everyone sat and waited it felt like an eternity waiting for a call. As none was made, both coaches reacted like coaches do and wanted to take charge as no one on the field seemed to want to. I don't know of anyone who would sit quietly and watch this thing unfold the way it did. Sideline warning or no sideline warning. Besides, a penalty at that point wasn't going to make a difference. The game would be decided by the decision that everyone was waiting for.

[OverAndBack]

Is this an instance where, as a wing, you'd either cheat in a bit at the snap or come in hard to make sure you get a better view? I know you don't want to get caught too far in if they spring a trick play and the ball gets pitched back wide for some reason, but if it's obvious they're going up the middle and this is a key play, would it be acceptable to come in earlier and farther than you might normally as a wing on a goalline situation? EDIT: I see this has been covered, but not conclusively remedied. Some say yes, some say you don't want to get caught suckered if the ball goes wide. Both seem valid. I guess I'm going to squint and try to keep my eyes on that ball as best I can and maybe cheat in a bit, but not far enough that I can't get back.

Still, somebody's got to see it, you'd hope. If you see leather and see his knee down, there you go, call him down and be done with it. But you'd better be sure. This video is kind of inconclusive.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by The Cynic

As none was made, both coaches reacted like coaches do and wanted to take charge as no one on the field seemed to want to. I don't know of anyone who would sit quietly and watch this thing unfold the way it did. Sideline warning or no sideline warning. Besides, a penalty at that point wasn't going to make a difference. The game would be decided by the decision that everyone was waiting for.

So what exactly is being over 50 yards from where you are supposed to be do?

I thought there were 30 seconds left in the game. How does that down decide the game if there are 30 seconds left?

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by LDUB

So what exactly is being over 50 yards from where you are supposed to be do?

Makes you feel in control.

Which is what most coaches seem to be all about anyway.

/gross generalization

[parepat]

Do any of you believe that the coaches actions on this play had any impact on the officials complete mismanagement of this play? Who exactly should have been dealing with the coaches, the linesman holding a phantom spot for no reason, the backjudge with his finger up his *ss, or the referee who chose not to talk to his crew. The coaches were the least of the problem on this fiasco.

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally Posted by LDUB

So what exactly is being over 50 yards from where you are supposed to be do?

I thought there were 30 seconds left in the game. How does that down decide the game if there are 30 seconds left?

You are kidding right? You can't get the play call ruling right but you are going to get the sideline warning on this? Seems like a recipe for disaster imo.

I don't do football, but I know that if I kick a call or we as a crew miss a rule on the basketball floor and the coach comes to the end of the bench to chew on me/us I will give him *some* latitude and I sure as heck aint gonna hit with a "coaches box" warning or tech unless he goes bananas and shows us up... different story and one I have to address.

Case in point... I had a game where I am the referee and one of my umpires hits his whistle once the ball is live after a timeout and sprints over to me frantically saying he has a technical foul as he has 6 players on the court. I immediately look and I only see 5 of his players. The coach starts to protest and I tell him to be calm for a minute... I take the co-official in question far away from the benches and instruct my other official to watch the players. We discuss it and I say I only counted 5. He insists that one ran off the sidelines as he ran over to me. I can't convince him there were not 6 and I don't know for sure that one did not leave so we assess the Technical foul as he made the call. I tell him to go administer the the free throws while I deal with the coach. Coach is waaaaaaaay not happy and he vents. Because I think he may be right I let him have at me allowing some things to be said that would have gotten him a "T" right away under different circumstances but he needs to vent and he is not in his coaches box. If I whack him here, I am gonna have to toss him and make a bad sitch worse. However, he does not stop there and his clip board suddenly slams into the floor due to his thrusting it that direction... now we have to give him a "T" and he knows it. Game ended without any more probs. Two weeks later I see him and he compliments my handling of the situation and completely agreed with the "T" I assessed directly to him.

Pouring salt in coaches wounds is not smart. Rule Book officiating sometimes accomplishes salt in the wound and you need to use people skills at this point and use the book as a guideline.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

You are kidding right? You can't get the play call ruling right but you are going to get the sideline warning on this? Seems like a recipe for disaster imo.

I don't do football, but I know that if I kick a call or we as a crew miss a rule on the basketball floor and the coach comes to the end of the bench to chew on me/us I will give him *some* latitude and I sure as heck aint gonna hit with a "coaches box" warning or tech unless he goes bananas and shows us up... different story and one I have to address.

There is a difference between being 3 feet out of the box in basketball and coming out to the middle of the field on the goal line in football. Also, a sideline warning has no penalty for the first one. Coming out to the middle of the field isn't acceptable.

Your whole thing about maybe getting the call wrong and allowing someone latitude doesn't even apply to this situation as there were coaches from both teams all the way out there while the officials were discussing things before a call had even been made.

And yes, it should be a USC foul if a coach is out there arguing. In basketball if you want to give the coach latitude that is fine. He is in the box and you let him say a few bad things, or maybe he is out of the box but you let it go. But leaving the box by 30 feet (I think that distance in BB is equitable to how far away these guys were from the team area in the FB game) and arguing...I don't see how that is not a technical foul.