Illegal Kicks

[Careyy]

What is your ruling for the following play:

A on it's 35 3-8, passes the ball and B-1 intercepts and returns the ball to A's 45 where he is hit and fumbles. Seeing an A player about to recover the ball B-2 kicks it to the A-50 where B-3 recovers.

[boboman316]

B recieved the ball with clean hands so they are going to keep it, because they ended up with the ball. B is guilty of illegal batting (kicking) which is a 15 yard penalty. The penalty happened at the A's 45, which was the end of the first run, and the end of the second run was the 50. Because the penalty occurred during a loose ball, it should be enforced from the previous spot (?). Would that be where B intercepted, or would it be A's 45, or the 50. I'm unsure. But if I were in the heat of the moment, I would enforce the penalty from the 50. Making it 1st/10 for B from B's 35.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Careyy

What is your ruling for the following play:

A on it's 35 3-8, passes the ball and B-1 intercepts and returns the ball to A's 45 where he is hit and fumbles. Seeing an A player about to recover the ball B-2 kicks it to the A-50 where B-3 recovers.

The A-50? Where's the B-50?

We bean bag the fumble at the A45. We also have a flag at the A45 for illegal kicking. The 15 yard penalty would be assessed from the A45.

[refbuz]

Where B intercepts the ball is not an enforcement spot. We are not enforcing from the previous spot because B got the ball with clean hands. The only spot left to enforce the foul is the end of the run.

B keeps the ball, enforce the foul from the end of Bs run. In this case A45. 1 & 10 for B @ B40

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by boboman316

Because the penalty occurred during a loose ball, it should be enforced from the previous spot (?).

ART. 1 . . . A loose-ball play is action during:
a. A free kick or scrimmage kick other than post-scrimmage kick fouls.
b. A legal forward pass.
c. A backward pass (including the snap), an illegal kick or fumble made by A
from in or behind the neutral zone prior to a change of team possession.
d. The run or runs which precedes such legal or illegal kick, legal forward
pass, backward pass or fumble.

Don't confuse a "loose ball" with a "loose ball play". There can be multiple runs during a play but there can only be one loose ball play and that will happen at the beginning of the down. You do have to wait for the play to develop before you can tell where the loose ball play ends and the subsequent running play starts if there is one. Once the ball was intercepted you have a running play and ABO enforcement. It appears that the illegal kick occurred at the same yard line as the end of the run so it's enforced from there.

[ljdave]

Originally Posted by boboman316

B recieved the ball with clean hands so they are going to keep it, because they ended up with the ball. B is guilty of illegal batting (kicking) which is a 15 yard penalty. The penalty happened at the A's 45, which was the end of the first run, and the end of the second run was the 50. Because the penalty occurred during a loose ball, it should be enforced from the previous spot (?). Would that be where B intercepted, or would it be A's 45, or the 50. I'm unsure. But if I were in the heat of the moment, I would enforce the penalty from the 50. Making it 1st/10 for B from B's 35.

If you're following proper mechanics, we didn't throw a beanbag at the spot of the interception, so we don't know where that is. Others have posted the correct ruling; it will be 1st and 10 for B at their 40 y.l.

One important thing to note: I read the first post to say that the y.l. where possession was lost and where the foul occurred are both the 45 y.l. If the foul had been at say the 47 y.l., we still enforce from the 45 y.l. ("Spot where the related run ends" -- 10-4-4). If the foul had occurred behind the point where possession was lost, say the 42 y.l., we flag that spot and enforce from the 42 (All-But-One Principle).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The A-50? Where's the B-50?

http://www.sportsknowhow.com/images/...iagram-lrg.gif

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The A-50? Where's the B-50?

Aha! It was a trick question! If there's a separate A50, then it must be Canadian football and it's not illegal kicking! Then it's just a matter of whether B-3 was onside.

Robert

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I agree with what most everyone said here: clean hands--B will keep the ball. Foul was during a running play. The all-but-one will determine the spot of enforcement. End of the run was at A's 45--the spot of the fumble.

The only thing we don't know is where was the ball when it was kicked? We know it was fumbled at A's 45, and it was kicked to A's 50. But where did the actual kick take place? If it was on B's side of A's 45, then enforcement will be from the spot of the kick; if it was on A's side of A's 45, then enforcement will be from A's 45 (end of the run). You really need to know where the kick takes place.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The A-50? Where's the B-50?

We bean bag the fumble at the A45. We also have a flag at the A45 for illegal kicking. The 15 yard penalty would be assessed from the A45.

"The A-50? Where's the B-50?

Canada (110 yd. field)

Bob