Great, I have to deal with A-11

[KWH]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

...the A-11 is illegal in NC. It makes no difference what the down is.

BBR-
Is a fake punt also illegal in NC?

I would again challange you to explain to me ANY difference between a fake punt and the A-11 Offense?

The A-11 Offense is best described as:
A team that elects to run a variation of LEGAL fake punts.
Nothing more, and nothing less!

Again, BBR; as I have said before, I challenge you to prove me wrong by a NFHS rule!

[MI Official]

So if I interpret this right, the A11 is scrimmage kick formation. So if they shift out of the formation, they are, IMHO, no longer fit the "numbering exception" of the rules. BUT, if they simply run a "normal" play I dont see how we can get them on an USC unless they use some kind of verbage to throw off the defense. All I can see is that we would have to be very aware of elligible and ineligible numbers. Somebody set me straight if I am headed off course.....

[KWH]

MI Official-
Yes, The A-11 by definition utilzes a LEGAL scrimmage kick formation and essentially runs a LEGAL fake punt play.
By lining up in a SKF the A-11 may LEGALLY utilize the "Numbering exception." Additionally, they LEGALLY run the A-11 Offense on any down under current NFHS rule.
Restated, their is no NFHS rule agains the A-11 Offense.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by KWH

MI Official-
Yes, The A-11 by definition utilzes a LEGAL scrimmage kick formation and essentially runs a LEGAL fake punt play.
By lining up in a SKF the A-11 may LEGALLY utilize the "Numbering exception." Additionally, they LEGALLY run the A-11 Offense on any down under current NFHS rule.
Restated, their is no NFHS rule agains the A-11 Offense.

All that is true, but I'm sure the resistance to this offense comes from the use of an exception put in place for a specific purpose and using it all the time thereby eliminating the exception aspect of the rule. This was clearly not the intent of the rule, but the founders of this offense are, for now, legally exploiting a loop hole. Will it be closed in the near future? I guess we get to wait and see.

[MI Official]

While the jury is still out on my opinion of the offense, I did go and look at the website. USC would still be a very hard sell. but there are times when the formation appears to have less than 7. That being said, a majority of it is screens and runs. My question is this... IN SKF isn't the "kicker" that is 7 yards deep supposed to be directly behind center? Likewise it looked like when they ran an "up back" he may have been between the center and the other QB.... lets just say I am shaking my head on a lot of the formations I saw.....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MI Official

While the jury is still out on my opinion of the offense, I did go and look at the website. USC would still be a very hard sell. but there are times when the formation appears to have less than 7. That being said, a majority of it is screens and runs. My question is this... IN SKF isn't the "kicker" that is 7 yards deep supposed to be directly behind center? Likewise it looked like when they ran an "up back" he may have been between the center and the other QB.... lets just say I am shaking my head on a lot of the formations I saw.....

It does not have to be the kicker that is seven yards back, just someone that is able to receive the snap. And you do not have to snap to the "kicker." You could snap the ball to an upback. But the bottom line is you cannot have someone under center and be allowed all the things you can do in a scrimmage kick formation.

Peace

[MI Official]

I understand the no one under center and it doesnt necessarily have to be a kicker. What I am saying is that in any and all graphic representations of the SKF the player has been directly behind the center 7+ yards deep. is this still a legal SKF if the player(s) are behind the guard(s)???

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

All that is true, but I'm sure the resistance to this offense comes from the use of an exception put in place for a specific purpose and using it all the time thereby eliminating the exception aspect of the rule. This was clearly not the intent of the rule, but the founders of this offense are, for now, legally exploiting a loop hole.

Clock strategy was not the intent of the timing rules, but there it is. The clock was stopped under certain cirumstances to not penalize team A when extra time was needed to ready the ball for play. They didn't intend for teams to conserve time by deliberately making the ball dead in certain ways.

Robert

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Clock strategy was not the intent of the timing rules, but there it is. The clock was stopped under certain cirumstances to not penalize team A when extra time was needed to ready the ball for play. They didn't intend for teams to conserve time by deliberately making the ball dead in certain ways.

Robert

I suppose that somehow applies to the discussion, I'm not sure how though.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I suppose that somehow applies to the discussion, I'm not sure how though.

Somebody said this was a loophole that was being exploited in an unintended way, and I'm pointing out that's not the 1st time for football, and in the case of the timing rules people decided it was perfectly OK.

Robert

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by MI Official

So if I interpret this right, the A11 is scrimmage kick formation. So if they shift out of the formation, they are, IMHO, no longer fit the "numbering exception" of the rules. BUT, if they simply run a "normal" play I dont see how we can get them on an USC unless they use some kind of verbage to throw off the defense. All I can see is that we would have to be very aware of elligible and ineligible numbers. Somebody set me straight if I am headed off course.....

The problem is not eligible numbers, since the point of the A11 is everyone, or nearly everyone, has an eligible number. What you have to watch for is who is ineligible due to initial position, all the shifting/motion that goes on, and if a pass is actually thrown beyond the line.