Great, I have to deal with A-11

[daggo66]

I plan on approaching this scrimmage with the mindset of making sure they are at the letter of the law, thus making it easier on all concerned when the season opens. I do believe the NFHS will make a direct statement regarding this next year. In the case of the team in my area, it really isn't a matter or learning something new. I've made the case from day 1 that this is not a new offense. It is a new formation. The offense is the same west coast spread that has been around for years. The difference is the numbering and the shift to the line. This coach is a pro at the no huddle spread. All he is doing is adding new formations and shifts. He is not changing his offense and he will not change it next year if the rule changes, he just will have to wear legal numbers.

[Warrenkicker]

So we know that A-11 will not be allowed in at least three states. Let's hear from some of the people in those states. Is the A-11 offense illegal for all downs or is it illegal for scrimmage downs where it is obvious that a kick won't be attempted? Are you using the college rule?

If the individual states have not clarified this statement then they have basically stated that the numbering exception is not legal this year. I don't think they wanted to do that so what exactly was said.

[daggo66]

You need to clarify NFHS states. So far I only know of NC and the District of Columbia. Texas uses NCAA rules.

[BktBallRef]

Warren, the A-11 is illegal in NC. It makes no difference what the down is.

daggo66, you need to read more forums. The A-11 is illegal in NC, GA, LA, WV and the District of Columbia. There maybe others that we are not aware of.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Warren, the A-11 is illegal in NC. It makes no difference what the down is.

I'll play devil's advocate then. Say a team comes up to the LOS on 4th down with 11 players wearing eligible numbers and gets into punt formation. These are all athletes so they are all wearing eligible numbers. What would be the indicator to an official that this formation becomes unsportsmanlike? If the team runs straight to the LOS and lines up quickly and snaps the ball to run a fake is that legal or not? It sounds very arbitrary to say these formations could be illegal on all downs.

All of these formations are legal at the NCAA level on 4th down. 48 is the snapper, 32 is at least 7 yards back and 21 is the punter.

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[Mike L]

Here in San Diego, CA we've been told the A-11 is not prohibited by rule. I happen to agree (although I don't like it) and I don't think those states that are outlawing it have a leg to stand on rulewise, but they get to do whatever they want I suppose. For us, we'll officiate to the letter of the law (ie no slack given) regarding shifts, motions, eligibility due to original sets, etc.

[cmathews]

the A-11 is illegal in Wyoming. Our state association made the announcement last night.

[KWH]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

...the A-11 is illegal in NC. It makes no difference what the down is.

BBR-
Is a fake punt also illegal in NC?

I would again challange you to explain to me ANY difference between a fake punt and the A-11 Offense?

The A-11 Offense is best described as:
A team that elects to run a variation of LEGAL fake punts.
Nothing more, and nothing less!

Again, BBR; as I have said before, I challenge you to prove me wrong by a NFHS rule!

[MI Official]

So if I interpret this right, the A11 is scrimmage kick formation. So if they shift out of the formation, they are, IMHO, no longer fit the "numbering exception" of the rules. BUT, if they simply run a "normal" play I dont see how we can get them on an USC unless they use some kind of verbage to throw off the defense. All I can see is that we would have to be very aware of elligible and ineligible numbers. Somebody set me straight if I am headed off course.....

[KWH]

MI Official-
Yes, The A-11 by definition utilzes a LEGAL scrimmage kick formation and essentially runs a LEGAL fake punt play.
By lining up in a SKF the A-11 may LEGALLY utilize the "Numbering exception." Additionally, they LEGALLY run the A-11 Offense on any down under current NFHS rule.
Restated, their is no NFHS rule agains the A-11 Offense.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by KWH

MI Official-
Yes, The A-11 by definition utilzes a LEGAL scrimmage kick formation and essentially runs a LEGAL fake punt play.
By lining up in a SKF the A-11 may LEGALLY utilize the "Numbering exception." Additionally, they LEGALLY run the A-11 Offense on any down under current NFHS rule.
Restated, their is no NFHS rule agains the A-11 Offense.

All that is true, but I'm sure the resistance to this offense comes from the use of an exception put in place for a specific purpose and using it all the time thereby eliminating the exception aspect of the rule. This was clearly not the intent of the rule, but the founders of this offense are, for now, legally exploiting a loop hole. Will it be closed in the near future? I guess we get to wait and see.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by MI Official

So if I interpret this right, the A11 is scrimmage kick formation. So if they shift out of the formation, they are, IMHO, no longer fit the "numbering exception" of the rules. BUT, if they simply run a "normal" play I dont see how we can get them on an USC unless they use some kind of verbage to throw off the defense. All I can see is that we would have to be very aware of elligible and ineligible numbers. Somebody set me straight if I am headed off course.....

The problem is not eligible numbers, since the point of the A11 is everyone, or nearly everyone, has an eligible number. What you have to watch for is who is ineligible due to initial position, all the shifting/motion that goes on, and if a pass is actually thrown beyond the line.