Pass play

[DrMooreReferee]

A's ball 1st and 10 @ midfield. Prior to the snap, B55 sneaks up as if to blitz. At the snap he is 3 yards off the ball, but he charges in at the snap. A76 makes contact with B55 at the line of scrimmage and then drives him 2 yards off the ball to the B48. A12 throws a forward pass that falls incomplete at B's 40.

Ruling??

Do we have a foul or not? please explain....

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

A's ball 1st and 10 @ midfield. Prior to the snap, B55 sneaks up as if to blitz. At the snap he is 3 yards off the ball, but he charges in at the snap. A76 makes contact with B55 at the line of scrimmage and then drives him 2 yards off the ball to the B48. A12 throws a forward pass that falls incomplete at B's 40.

Ruling??

Do we have a foul or not? please explain....

REPLY: (Federation) It depends...where was the LB at the snap? If he was within a yard of his LOS at the snap, then he is by definition a defensive lineman. In that case he can legally be blocked and driven up to 2 yards back without the O-lineman being guilty of being illegally downfield. The rule allowing ineligibles into the expanded neutral zone when blocking a defensive player is limited to blocks against defensive linemen.

[DrMooreReferee]

Good explanation. Thats what I was getting at. I thought I made it clear that he was 3 yards off the ball at the snap. But now that I look at it, the wording I used made it a bit confusing.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

Good explanation. Thats what I was getting at. I thought I made it clear that he was 3 yards off the ball at the snap. But now that I look at it, the wording I used made it a bit confusing.

REPLY: No...actually I read it too quickly. You were quite clear where he was at the snap. However, I think we've clarified correctly how the ENZ can be used during a legal forward pass.

[ljdave]

Would you really flag this?

"Ineligible A players may not advance across the ENZ before a legal forward pass which crosses the neutral zone is in flight unless touched by B in or behind the NZ." (NFHS Rulebook, pg. 63)

I know article 12 on the previous page does say "B lineman", but "lineman" isn't even defined in Rule 2. What is a defensive lineman? By your example, he was in fact in the FBZ. But honestly, even if this were a safety who started 10 yards off the ball and blitzed, and an A lineman entered the ENZ to block him, my crew has no foul.

What say others?

[DrMooreReferee]

By rule,,, its a foul.

Look at 2-25-3 (page 35 of the rulebook) to get the info on what a B lineman is.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by ljdave

...What say others?

REPLY: I would say that 'lineman' is defined in 2-32-9, but that's only for offensive linemen. Check out 2-25-3 if you are looking for the definition of a 'defensive lineman.'

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

A's ball 1st and 10 @ midfield. Prior to the snap, B55 sneaks up as if to blitz. At the snap he is 3 yards off the ball, but he charges in at the snap. A76 makes contact with B55 at the line of scrimmage and then drives him 2 yards off the ball to the B48. A12 throws a forward pass that falls incomplete at B's 40.

Ruling??

Do we have a foul or not? please explain....

CANADIAN RULING:

Nothing even close to being illegal.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

A's ball 1st and 10 @ midfield. Prior to the snap, B55 sneaks up as if to blitz. At the snap he is 3 yards off the ball, but he charges in at the snap. A76 makes contact with B55 at the line of scrimmage and then drives him 2 yards off the ball to the B48. A12 throws a forward pass that falls incomplete at B's 40.

Ruling??

Do we have a foul or not? please explain....

There is the rule book and there is just plain ole common sense.

First question is did this have a material affect on the play and my belief is it does not. Also consider the defensive line is one yard off the ball, so, two yards deep is really only one yard downfield. Now tell me who is going to get a yard stick out to measure that during the game?

The only possible foul is if B55 encroached before the snap. NFHS is a dead ball foul, NCAA live ball.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I agree with what the others have said. I probably wouldn't have been able to see the whole play, let alone call it. And if I did see it, I probably wouldn't flag it. But for test-taking purposes, it is a foul.