Pass play

[MJT]

IMO, if the ball was gone already, just being thrown, or thrown just after he re-entered the field, I would not have a flag on the ground. If he did get involved in the play in any way, by blocking or such, I'd have a late flag on the yard line he re-entered the field of play. I believe that is what a supervisor would say.

[a4caster]

Couldn't you just drop the flag and confer afterwards? I know a wave-off never looks good, but what is worse: dropping an inadvertant, or have a player go 50 yards for a TD, then after signalling, running back down the sideline to throw the flag. I guess, if the placement is not critical, then anywhere on the sideline would suffice. But then everyone will think it was PI and that will get the crowd going. At least that's what I'm told; I wear ear plugs!!

[ajmc]

Being able to judge whether a violation deserves attention and punishment, and when it doesn't make any difference to play is the essence of officiating. The mechanic for an eligible receiver going OOB (on his own) and then coming back is; beanbag when he goes out, flag when he comes back.

In a passing situation it's not going to make much of a difference where the flag is thrown, because enforcement will likely be from the previous spot. With most penalties, it's wise to consider what effect the infraction has on the action before launching a flag, and if that conclusion is there was not any relevant effect, perhaps a private instructional warning might be a more effective remedy.

If some astute sideline observer questions why there is a beanbag, and no subsequent flag, a simple response that the action had no effect on play or provided any unfair advantage should address any reasonable inquiry. If the inquiry turns out to be unreasonable, there are different ways to deal with that.

[Forksref]

The effect on the play should be considered. If the ball is thrown down the middle of the field or to the other side I have nothing. If the play is to his side and he gets involved in the pass or subsequent blocking, then we have to flag it. I think the good official can tell which is which and the plays develop very quickly, so you should have an idea really soon after it starts.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Forksref

The effect on the play should be considered. If the ball is thrown down the middle of the field or to the other side I have nothing. If the play is to his side and he gets involved in the pass or subsequent blocking, then we have to flag it. I think the good official can tell which is which and the plays develop very quickly, so you should have an idea really soon after it starts.

I would go one step further to say if he is in the area where the ball is thrown and his presence is noticed by the defense he has affected the play by his presence.

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The mechanic for an eligible receiver going OOB (on his own) and then coming back is; beanbag when he goes out, flag when he comes back.

I can't find this in my books...but a lot of mechanics aren't in the books, so can someone...anyone explain why bag the spot he goes out, that is not a spot you will ever need for any reason, its kind of like bagging a muffed snap or a fumble behind the line.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I can't find this in my books...but a lot of mechanics aren't in the books, so can someone...anyone explain why bag the spot he goes out, that is not a spot you will ever need for any reason, its kind of like bagging a muffed snap or a fumble behind the line.

I don't know as we don't use it here. Our association's mechanic is to flag where the player comes back in.

Great discussion folks, thanks for the feedback.

[Jim D]

I agree that there is no reason at all to bean bag the spot where he goes out of bounds - that spot means nothing and we have no need to go back to it or refer to it. It's the coming back in that is the foul and that should properly marked with a flag.

[ajmc]

As it was explained, long ago, the purpose of the beanbag is to verify "that" (as well as where) the player was observed going OOB (on his own) which supports the penalty for a subsequent flag for illegal participation, when the flag is thrown.

It seems to follow the same logic of using a beanbag to identify an incident of "first touching" as a support to the subsequent awarding of the ball at a different location, or even team, following either a free or scrimmage kick. Of course the actual location of the first touching is more significant than where an individual went OOB, but the verification support the presence of a beandbag provides is similar and can minimize, or possibly avoid, unnecessary doubt about a penalty which is created by two separate and distinct actions occuring at different locations.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by ajmc

As it was explained, long ago, the purpose of the beanbag is to verify "that" (as well as where) the player was observed going OOB (on his own) which supports the penalty for a subsequent flag for illegal participation, when the flag is thrown.

It seems to follow the same logic of using a beanbag to identify an incident of "first touching" as a support to the subsequent awarding of the ball at a different location, or even team, following either a free or scrimmage kick. Of course the actual location of the first touching is more significant than where an individual went OOB, but the verification support the presence of a beandbag provides is similar and can minimize, or possibly avoid, unnecessary doubt about a penalty which is created by two separate and distinct actions occuring at different locations.

I'm not sure a coach who wouldn't take my word if I say a player stepped out of bounds will believe me if I thow a bean bag and then say he stepped out of bounds. I don't have "verification" for my calls during a game - pass interference, clipping, blocking below the waist. I think this just adds confusions if some crews do it and some don't.

[ajmc]

Perhaps I should have said "Our" mechanic, rather than "The" mechanic, as sometimes we all may presume that the mechanics used in one area are universal, which often they are not.

"When in Rome", often applies to football officiating as well. If you believe that this, or any mechanic, is confusing or unnecessary and is not the practice in your area, then by all means you can choose to ignore it.

ReffingRef asked what the logic was, and I was simply answering him.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by ajmc

...In a passing situation it's not going to make much of a difference where the flag is thrown, because enforcement will likely be from the previous spot.

REPLY: The big issue here is if his return has a subsequent bearing on the play, and if that play that began with a passing situation but instead turns into a running play which ends beyond his point of return. Now you darn well better know where he returned since this will be the point of enforcement.

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: The big issue here is if his return has a subsequent bearing on the play, and if that play that began with a passing situation but instead turns into a running play which ends beyond his point of return. Now you darn well better know where he returned since this will be the point of enforcement.

Are you talking about a play where the ball is never thrown?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by daggo66

Are you talking about a play where the ball is never thrown?

REPLY: Yes. I should have been more clear about that.

[daggo66]

Then I had better see a flag laying on the spot where he stepped back in or I'll be eating and drinking for free after the game!