Pass play

[Forksref]

3rd and 15 for A at A's 25 yd line. A81 runs a sideline pattern and steps on the sideline for 3 steps, returns to the field at the 43 yd line, catches a pass and is tackled at the 47 yd line. What do we have, and how is it enforced?

[Welpe]

NFHS: Illegal participation on A81. Since this is a loose ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot. 3rd and 30 at the A 12.5 yard line. I think?

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by Welpe

NFHS: Illegal participation on A81. Since this is a loose ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot. 3rd and 30 at the A 12.5 yard line. I think?

Sounds right to me.

[jjrye22]

NCAA: it's just a loss of down from previous spot.
Illegal touching A81 (as long as he went out voluntarily and was not forced out).
4rd and 15 for A at A's 25 yd line

[HLin NC]

Actually enforcement would be from the spot of the foul at the 43 where he re-entered the field, would it not? I remember we are supposed to have our flag at the spot he re-entered.

[ajmc]

The spot of the foul is where the player returns inbounds (Case Book:9.6.1.a), but the basic spot, for enforcing a penalty for a foul occuring during a loose ball play is the previous spot, NF 10.4.1)

[MJT]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The spot of the foul is where the player returns inbounds (Case Book:9.6.1.a), but the basic spot, for enforcing a penalty for a foul occuring during a loose ball play is the previous spot, NF 10.4.1)

That is correct. You do not have a flag on the ground UNLESS he comes back in IB's before the ball becomes dead and then the flag should be at spot he returned IB's. This is a loose ball play, so the BS is the PS, which will be the enforcement spot unless the penalty occurred behind the BS.

[Welpe]

So let's talk about enforcement philosophy on this play. When would it be appropriate to keep the flag in your pocket, especially if the ball wasn't thrown or thrown to the other side of the field?

[w_sohl]

in those two sitchs you would keep the flag as his leaving the field had no bearing on the play. If he reenters the field and is involved in the play you have to flag it.

What if it is a long developing play and he goes out early while the ball is in the QBs hands still, return to the field and runs 10 yards then QB throws the ball. Are we flagging as soon as he returns to the field or is that one where you can come up and drop the flag after the play ends?

[MJT]

IMO, if the ball was gone already, just being thrown, or thrown just after he re-entered the field, I would not have a flag on the ground. If he did get involved in the play in any way, by blocking or such, I'd have a late flag on the yard line he re-entered the field of play. I believe that is what a supervisor would say.

[a4caster]

Couldn't you just drop the flag and confer afterwards? I know a wave-off never looks good, but what is worse: dropping an inadvertant, or have a player go 50 yards for a TD, then after signalling, running back down the sideline to throw the flag. I guess, if the placement is not critical, then anywhere on the sideline would suffice. But then everyone will think it was PI and that will get the crowd going. At least that's what I'm told; I wear ear plugs!!

[ajmc]

Being able to judge whether a violation deserves attention and punishment, and when it doesn't make any difference to play is the essence of officiating. The mechanic for an eligible receiver going OOB (on his own) and then coming back is; beanbag when he goes out, flag when he comes back.

In a passing situation it's not going to make much of a difference where the flag is thrown, because enforcement will likely be from the previous spot. With most penalties, it's wise to consider what effect the infraction has on the action before launching a flag, and if that conclusion is there was not any relevant effect, perhaps a private instructional warning might be a more effective remedy.

If some astute sideline observer questions why there is a beanbag, and no subsequent flag, a simple response that the action had no effect on play or provided any unfair advantage should address any reasonable inquiry. If the inquiry turns out to be unreasonable, there are different ways to deal with that.

[Forksref]

The effect on the play should be considered. If the ball is thrown down the middle of the field or to the other side I have nothing. If the play is to his side and he gets involved in the pass or subsequent blocking, then we have to flag it. I think the good official can tell which is which and the plays develop very quickly, so you should have an idea really soon after it starts.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Forksref

The effect on the play should be considered. If the ball is thrown down the middle of the field or to the other side I have nothing. If the play is to his side and he gets involved in the pass or subsequent blocking, then we have to flag it. I think the good official can tell which is which and the plays develop very quickly, so you should have an idea really soon after it starts.

I would go one step further to say if he is in the area where the ball is thrown and his presence is noticed by the defense he has affected the play by his presence.

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The mechanic for an eligible receiver going OOB (on his own) and then coming back is; beanbag when he goes out, flag when he comes back.

I can't find this in my books...but a lot of mechanics aren't in the books, so can someone...anyone explain why bag the spot he goes out, that is not a spot you will ever need for any reason, its kind of like bagging a muffed snap or a fumble behind the line.