Mike Carey

[Rich]

Maybe I'm the contrarian here, but I tell my wings to make sure the guy gets off or they should flag it.

[OverAndBack]

At the NFL level, I'm thinking, yeah, they should.

But at the high school level, if I'm a wing and the guy's even with me and busting his *** to get off at the snap, I don't think I'm calling it. If I cheat in because it's a lower-level game and the field seems really wide for the kids playing and the play is on the far hash, as long as he gets behind me, he's fine.

Of course, that's just me and the guys I've worked with in the past. That's not to say that's the best way, just a way they (and I) are comfortable with.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

At the NFL level, I'm thinking, yeah, they should.

But at the high school level, if I'm a wing and the guy's even with me and busting his *** to get off at the snap, I don't think I'm calling it. If I cheat in because it's a lower-level game and the field seems really wide for the kids playing and the play is on the far hash, as long as he gets behind me, he's fine.

Of course, that's just me and the guys I've worked with in the past. That's not to say that's the best way, just a way they (and I) are comfortable with.

I get films of my crew working every year. I remind my crew to count the players and make sure they are giving the visible signal on each play for 2 reasons - one is so we are communicating with each other well and the other is so it can be seen on the video.

Maybe in a freshman game I feel we could get away with this, but on Friday night there are a few cameras taping the game and both coaching staffs will be watching later. I'll be darned if I'm going to let something like this go only to have it show up on the film later. You cannot possibly argue with the flag with the player still on the field.

I'm happy to let crews do whatever they like here - I'm just telling you how my crew handles it.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I get films of my crew working every year. I remind my crew to count the players and make sure they are giving the visible signal on each play for 2 reasons - one is so we are communicating with each other well and the other is so it can be seen on the video.

I learned that early on, and it's a good point. You never know who is watching. Both of those are good reasons to signal.

Maybe in a freshman game I feel we could get away with this, but on Friday night there are a few cameras taping the game and both coaching staffs will be watching later. I'll be darned if I'm going to let something like this go only to have it show up on the film later. You cannot possibly argue with the flag with the player still on the field.

Letter of the rule vs. spirit of the rule.

But, I guess if you go by the letter, you'll always be consistent. Fair enough.

I'm happy to let crews do whatever they like here - I'm just telling you how my crew handles it.

Cool.

As for Mike Carey, I thought he handled himself very well the whole game. I don't know why I hadn't noticed that little arm twirl he does when he signals the down after the administration of a penalty before.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Letter of the rule vs. spirit of the rule.

But, I guess if you go by the letter, you'll always be consistent. Fair enough.

I won't even characterize it that way. What *is* the spirit of the rule? That a team can take too much time substituting and still have someone running off the field at the snap as long as the guy doesn't take part in the play?

[Forksref]

I had a situation this past season near the end of the half. The team behind had the ball and wanted a timeout at the end of the down. Near the end of that play, the coach signaled to the wing official that he wanted a timeout. The wing official had the play coming toward him so he had to watch the play and stop the clock and dead-ball officiate. When I saw him signal to stop the clock, I looked to the clock and there was :01 left, then it ran to :00. So, we had a TO called with :01 on the clock, of which I had definite knowledge. Seeing :00 on the clock, the home team and coaches started toward the lockerroom. I cleared the field and we put :01 on the clock and ran one more play.

I think we did it the right way.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I won't even characterize it that way. What *is* the spirit of the rule? That a team can take too much time substituting and still have someone running off the field at the snap as long as the guy doesn't take part in the play?

I reckon the spirit of the substitution rule, as you just expressed it, makes sense. I was speaking of the spirit of the rule that thou shalt not have 12 men on the field.

Which wasn't even the call in question, so I'm wrong.

Illegal substitution, yeah, that's it right there. You took too long. You blew it. I guess that's why it's an illegal substitution penalty and not illegal participation (what one might normally think of as "12 men on the field"). You gain no actual playing advantage when a guy is a step and a half (and I don't even think it was a step and a half) from the sideline and hustling to get off, but an illegal substitution, at this level, yeah, that's exactly right. My bad.

[HLin NC]

as to why the 12th player was on the field to begin with? How do you not know in the NFL if you are on the punt return team or not?