Mike Carey

[OverAndBack]

And there's a huge difference between following the letter of the law in the NFL and the spirit of the law in NFHS. There aren't millions riding on the outcomes of high school games (if there are, we need a cut of that!).

It's the same as letting stuff go in a junior high or freshman game that you'd never let go on a Friday night under the lights, or the difference between a talk-to and a flag.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

From the previous posts it appears most officials consider a 12th leaving the field to not be worth much of their bother.

In a subvarsity game. If the guy's maybe a step from the sideline and can't have a bearing on the play.

The bigger question is how did the wing who's nine feet away from the player running off the field not at least see him out of his peripheral vision? Or if he did, he didn't make the call (I know, he has responsibility for the LOS at that point, but you should be able to see a 12th guy running off the field, sprinting towards you, especially if NY probably would have had to broken the huddle with 12 - maybe not, in all the substituting on a punt play).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

In a subvarsity game. If the guy's maybe a step from the sideline and can't have a bearing on the play.

The bigger question is how did the wing who's nine feet away from the player running off the field not at least see him out of his peripheral vision? Or if he did, he didn't make the call (I know, he has responsibility for the LOS at that point, but you should be able to see a 12th guy running off the field, sprinting towards you, especially if NY probably would have had to broken the huddle with 12 - maybe not, in all the substituting on a punt play).

Actually that is not entirely correct. The short wing is not mainly responsible for defensive players as the deep wing is in 7 man mechanics. The short wing might not even be focused on the defense in that situation. This would have been better for a deep wing to be focused on and when the ball was snapped might have been difficult to tell from their point of view if the player was off the field. I am sure the officials passed on this because they knew the rule, were not sure and did not want to make a call they were guessing on. Even in a 5 man game the back judge might have been in a better position to actually make this call. In 7 man the deep wings count the defense and would focus more on this player.

Peace

[OverAndBack]

Fair enough.

That's why those guys are in the NFL and I'm in the AZFOA.

[rulesmaven]

I was at the game and, for what it's worth, there was :01 on the stadium clock after the second to last play.

One very interesting play on the Giants winning TD drive. 4th and 1, and Giants runner is downed in bounds. Carey stops the clock, and it looks like there is going to be a measurement. Almost immediately, though, he gets to the spotted ball and eyeballs it and signals to the chains to move, and they start to do so. Takes him a while to signal first down. There is no measurement, from what I saw. (Although I was pretty high up in the upper deck.)

The stadium clock didn't restart until the U made the ball ready to play. I guess that's what would have happened if there had been a measurement, but there was not. Should Carey have rewound the clock once he decided he didn't want a measurement, or, once he stopped the clock, is it correct to wait until ready to play?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

The stadium clock didn't restart until the U made the ball ready to play. I guess that's what would have happened if there had been a measurement, but there was not. Should Carey have rewound the clock once he decided he didn't want a measurement, or, once he stopped the clock, is it correct to wait until ready to play?

Let me first qualify my statement by saying that NFL Timing rules are very different than college and high school rules. Unless there is some major difference, I will address what I am sure about.

If the clock was stopped because the ball was close to a first down, under rules outside of the NFL, you would start the clock on the ready for play. Normally when you stop the clock when the first down is very close, you are either going to measure or award a first down. There was no measurement so if Carey waited until the ready for play to start the clock that sounds correct to me. The NFL does things differently like stopping the clock after a QB sack, but most of their starting and stopping the clock procedures are the same as every other level.

Peace

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me first qualify my statement by saying that NFL Timing rules are very different than college and high school rules. Unless there is some major difference, I will address what I am sure about.

If the clock was stopped because the ball was close to a first down, under rules outside of the NFL, you would start the clock on the ready for play. Normally when you stop the clock when the first down is very close, you are either going to measure or award a first down. There was no measurement so if Carey waited until the ready for play to start the clock that sounds correct to me. The NFL does things differently like stopping the clock after a QB sack, but most of their starting and stopping the clock procedures are the same as every other level.

Peace

Thanks. That's interesting. In that circumstance, the mechanic should probably be to try to come to a very firm view whether you are inclined to call for a measurement before stopping the clock. On the other hand, on 4th down you don't want to let the clock run too much in that circumstance, since that would take time off the clock for the other team in the event of a turnover on downs.