Hines Ward - Good Guy, Thug, or Somewhere In The Middle?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Blue37

You said nothing insulting at all, but I need to clarify one of my statements.

I had to qualify my statements because some people reading this would take what I said as a slam. That was not the intention, but you have clarified why you are not as familiar with Hines Ward or how he conducts himself.

Originally Posted by Blue37

I should have said I do not watch much NFL on TV. I do see several games each year as a season ticket holder. The games I watch on TV are of "my team", and we are not in the same division as the Steelers, hence my failure to remember seeing him play.

And that is a completely different perspective when you watch games.

Originally Posted by Blue37

I do have a question. Who are the "they" you refer to when you say, "That is what they do in the NFL"? In the games I have seen, the majority of the players have respect for each other. At the end of the play, most of the players from both teams help each other up, pat the opponent on the head, and get ready for the next play. Those are the ones I classify the "good guys". Some act the way Ward did in the playoff game every play of every game. My team has a couple of them. Those I classify as "thugs". And there are those in between.

That is what players do. Now if you go to games as much as you say, it is rather common to see wide receivers and defensive players to be talking to each other on the way back after a play. Or they talk after the WR makes a play or a big block on a defensive player. Or vise versa when a defensive player lights up offensive player after a big play. At least when you watch a game on TV, you see this a lot during NFL games and even during college games. I agree that the view in the stands is a little different and depending on your seats you might not be paying as close attention to that kind of thing. And in a stadium environment there are many other things going on then just focusing on every action of players. I do not know about you, but I see a lot of what you described Ward did as what other players are doing throughout the league. I did not see the actions you saw so I have no idea if it was over the top, but it still happens.

Originally Posted by Blue37

Ward acted thuggishly last week. Bob M. says it was an aberration. I hope he is right. The NFL does not need more thugs.

The part that I find really peculiar is the fact that you say he acted "Thuggishly." I find that use of words odd. For one unless he was breaking a rule and was penalized for it, I do not know how that makes you a thug to talk a little trash. Players in all sports at all levels do that to some extent. It is apart of the back drop. Do you consider Tom Brady a thug? Do you consider Phillip Rivers a thug? I saw some of the very same actions that you describe come from these players in the last few weeks and one happen last weekend but you did not come on here calling these individuals "thuggish." Heck, Brett Farve has been doing this his entire career. Forgive me if that does not fit some people's sensibility.

Peace

[Mike L]

I can't imagine anyone considering an NFL quarterback a "thug". A criminal perhaps, but not a thug.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The part that I find really peculiar is the fact that you say he acted "Thuggishly." I find that use of words odd. For one unless he was breaking a rule and was penalized for it, I do not know how that makes you a thug to talk a little trash. Players in all sports at all levels do that to some extent. It is apart of the back drop. Do you consider Tom Brady a thug? Do you consider Phillip Rivers a thug? I saw some of the very same actions that you describe come from these players in the last few weeks and one happen last weekend but you did not come on here calling these individuals "thuggish." Heck, Brett Farve has been doing this his entire career. Forgive me if that does not fit some people's sensibility.

Peace

My intent was not to single Ward out. It was to find out if his conduct that game was usual or unusual. I like or dislike players based on how they act, on and off the field. Based on his actions that game, I found myself disliking him, but wanted to give him a second chance if it was out of character, and I will do so based on Bob M.'s reply.

As I mentioned in my first post, the actions that made me ask were physical in nature. It had nothing to do with talking trash. Perhaps we have a different definition of thug. Mine requires physical action. Talking trash does not make someone a thug. In my opinion, continually initiating unnecessary physical contact (even if it is not illegal) does. Continually getting in trouble (Adam Jones assaulting yet another woman) does.

I have not seen Brady do these things, but I have seen very few of his games and it is easy to keep your composure when you win all the time. You are on the mark with the other two. I have seen Rivers twice and my dislike for him is growing. Hearing people talk who knew him during his college days, they are amazed he has been able to keep it under wraps as long as he has. Favre is not one of my favorites.
(edited to correct spelling error)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Blue37

My intent was not to single Ward out. It was to find out if his conduct that game was usual or unusual. I like or dislike players based on how they act, on and off the field. Based on his actions that game, I found myself disliking him, but wanted to give him a second chance if it was out of character, and I will do so based on Bob M.'s reply.

Who you like is up to you. I am not trying to convince you to like anyone. So if you do not like the actions of Ward that is a personal thing.

Originally Posted by Blue37

As I mentioned in my first post, the actions that made me ask were physical in nature. It had nothing to do with talking trash. Perhaps we have a different definition of thug. Mine requires physical action. Talking trash does not make someone a thug. In my opinion, continually initiating unnecessary physical contact (even if it is not illegal) does. Continually getting in trouble (Adam Jones assaulting yet another woman) does.

I do not know how we can have a different definition, when the definition of a thug is very clear. A thug is a person that is criminal and violent. Everything you suggested that Ward did was neither criminal nor violent. And certainly was not considered illegal by the rules of the game where he was penalized (at least not in your description). What Pacman Jones is accused of fits that description because he has been involved or accused of criminal activity and the incidents have been violent. Hitting a woman in a club would fit that description. When you use words like that you cannot change the meaning because you think it should have a different meaning.

Originally Posted by Blue37

I have not seen Brady do these things, but I have seen very few of his games and it is easy to keep your composure when you win all the time. You are on the mark with the other two. I have seen Rivers twice and my dislike for him is growing. Hearing people talk who knew him during his college days, they are amazed he has been able to keep it under wraps as long as he has. Favre is not one of my favorites.
(edited to correct spelling error)

Brady got in the face of another Pittsburgh Steeler after that Steeler ran his mouth about beating the Patriots before the two teams met in about week 14. Brady on more than one occasion got into the face of this player after scoring a couple of TDs at the expense of this Steeler defensive back. And Brady even afterwards talked about it in the press conference. Rivers talked to a fan after the game last week and he was not even on the field. Rivers even was jawing with fans as he was going off the field and into the locker room to get his knee checked out (and he never played another minute in the game). I just find it odd that you created a thread about Ward doing this, but not these other individuals. And to use a word like Thug is a bit much in my way of thinking. And that is the main reason I responded. Because if Ward is a thug, then these much more high profile situations the word applies to Brady, Rivers and Farve. But for some reason you did not accuse them of that kind of behavior or used a word that I frankly find interesting considering that no one in the media has even made an issue out of this.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

I am not sure why someone has to be a "thug" because they play hard or talk trash.

I think its reasonable to put constant, unnecessary trash talking in the thug category, especially if a player is constantly initiating it and doing so with players he doesn't match up against.

Perhaps I'm just a little less tolerant of this stupidity than you are, but your question that I referenced here makes me scratch my head. To me, the burden would be on you to show why someone isn't necessarily a thug when he engages in stupid behavior that involves initiating trouble on the field. I will concede that "punk" may be a better term, but thug isn't unreasonable.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Brady got in the face of another Pittsburgh Steeler after that Steeler ran his mouth about beating the Patriots before the two teams met in about week 14. Brady on more than one occasion got into the face of this player after scoring a couple of TDs at the expense of this Steeler defensive back. And Brady even afterwards talked about it in the press conference. Rivers talked to a fan after the game last week and he was not even on the field. Rivers even was jawing with fans as he was going off the field and into the locker room to get his knee checked out (and he never played another minute in the game). I just find it odd that you created a thread about Ward doing this, but not these other individuals.

'Cause they're white, Jeff. Duh.










IT'S A JOKE. EVERYBODY TAKE A BREATH. JEFF'S MY MAN.



(As for Brady, yeah, the guy had it coming. He can use the "You started it" defense, which, in the Case of U.S. vs. Guys on the Playground, has been shown to be justified. Rivers, I don't know. But he's certainly got no lack of confidence.)

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

'Cause they're white, Jeff. Duh.










IT'S A JOKE. EVERYBODY TAKE A BREATH. JEFF'S MY MAN.



(As for Brady, yeah, the guy had it coming. He can use the "You started it" defense, which, in the Case of U.S. vs. Guys on the Playground, has been shown to be justified. Rivers, I don't know. But he's certainly got no lack of confidence.)

Could the fact Jeff brought them up be because they are white? Why did he not bring up Michael Vick or Adam Jones or Chris Henry? For me, this is not about race, it is about behavior.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Could the fact Jeff brought them up be because they are white? Why did he not bring up Michael Vick or Adam Jones or Chris Henry? For me, this is not about race, it is about behavior.

I find it odd that you went to the "thug" label on someone that does the same thing that many players that are white do all the time. And situations that have been much higher profile. And if you want to talk about the situations with Vick, Johns and Henry, at the very least two of those individuals were criminally accused of something off the field and involved violent behavior. And if you do not like that accusation, then at the very least know the definition of the words you choose to use. Because Ward by all accounts is not only anything like the names you just mentioned and did not commit a violent act outside of the rules of football or off the field.

It is not about race to you because you probably have the ability to avoid that topic all the time. I do not have that opportunity because people assume all kinds of things about me and I have not said a single thing. Maybe Ward is a bad guy, but a thug for talking a little trash to an opponent? Come on now. If that is the case almost every player I come in contact is a thug. And it would not matter what race they are either.

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Ahhh, finally, someone besides me calls Jeff out on the race issue. And that is exactly what he's making this -- a race issue.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Ahhh, finally, someone besides me calls Jeff out on the race issue. And that is exactly what he's making this -- a race issue.

Race is an issue I deal with on a regular basis. Whether it is overt or it is under the radar. If you think I am upset because you "call me out on it" then you have a lot to learn about me and this country. We just had race interjected in the current election and there was a Golf Channel Commentator that made some comments so this topic is not going away. And when people make comments about someone's criminal background (which the word Thug implies and is the definition of the word), then I have the right to point that out. Now if you do not want comments then do not post something that everyone can read and you will not have to worry about what I or others think. And I do not care if I am the only one that finds it odd (but it was pointed out by another poster BTW). I will stop talking about race when people that are not my color stop talking to me about it or implying things about me and others only on the basis of what I look like.

Peace

[MadCityRef]

Larry Bird was one of the "best" trash-talkers ever. These are professional athletes with millions of dollars at stake based on their success or failure. To play at that level takes talent and desire which often manifests as trash talking and rougher play than necessary. (And the 10 cups of coffee before the game doesn't hurt, either.) All these guys do is talk trash to one another. It's part of the game.

Hines Ward was named NFL's humanitarian of the year not long ago. He's a competitor.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Rivers, I don't know. But he's certainly got no lack of confidence.)

per the boys here in SD, Rivers is almost always responding to what has been said to him first. Perhaps not a very good excuse, and definitely no mention of that by ESPN et al while attempting to generate some story anyway they can, but that's the other side of the story.
So Philip is willing to fire back, what's the b!tch?

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I just find it odd that you created a thread about Ward doing this, but not these other individuals.
Peace

Reading is fundamental. You should try it.