The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Football (https://forum.officiating.com/football/)
-   -   15 YARD FACE MASK FOUL - Enforced As A "tack-on"? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/41036-15-yard-face-mask-foul-enforced-tack.html)

RoyGardner Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:06pm

15 YARD FACE MASK FOUL - Enforced As A "tack-on"?
 
In the Colts-Chargers game today a receiver was fouled right as he came off the LOS (a 15 yd facemask). Later in the same play, he caught a forward pass well downfield, ran for an additional yard or two, and was tackled. After several different discussions between the R and the calling official (BJ I believe), and then between the R and the U, the penalty was enforced as a 15 yard tack-on from the end of the run (actually was a 1/2 distance enforcement). Maybe the fact that the flag was thrown by a deep official, and ended up in the area where the runner was tackled caused some confusion?

Was this enforcement correct? I thought for a 15 yard FM foul to be a tack-on it had to be against the runner? In this case the fouled player was not the runner at the time of the foul. What is the correct enforcement for this under NFL rules?

I believe this is the play (from NFL.com):

4-5-SD 34 (3:02)
18-P.Manning pass short middle to 44-D.Clark to SD 18 for 16 yards (32-E.Weddle).
PENALTY on SD-95-S.Phillips, Face Mask (15 Yards), 9 yards, enforced at SD 18.

jimpiano Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyGardner
In the Colts-Chargers game today a receiver was fouled right as he came off the LOS (a 15 yd facemask). Later in the same play, he caught a forward pass well downfield, ran for an additional yard or two, and was tackled. After several different discussions between the R and the calling official (BJ I believe), and then between the R and the U, the penalty was enforced as a 15 yard tack-on from the end of the run (actually was a 1/2 distance enforcement). Maybe the fact that the flag was thrown by a deep official, and ended up in the area where the runner was tackled caused some confusion?

Was this enforcement correct? I thought for a 15 yard FM foul to be a tack-on it had to be against the runner? In this case the fouled player was not the runner at the time of the foul. What is the correct enforcement for this under NFL rules?

I believe this is the play (from NFL.com):

4-5-SD 34 (3:02)
18-P.Manning pass short middle to 44-D.Clark to SD 18 for 16 yards (32-E.Weddle).
PENALTY on SD-95-S.Phillips, Face Mask (15 Yards), 9 yards, enforced at SD 18.


From the NFL rule Book Section 8:

Article 3 When the defense commits a personal foul (or unsportsmanlike foul) prior to
a completion of a legal forward pass from behind the line, the offense shall have the
choice either.
(a) the usual penalty—15 yards from the previous spot; or
(b) a 15-yard penalty enforced from the spot where the ball is dead.

raiderfan Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:15pm

regarding facemask infractions... During the Dallas-Giants game, a replay of a run, I was certain I saw a Dallas lineman pull the facemask of his teammate who was the runner. The talking heads were talking about something else which was the reason for the replay and there was no flag on the play. The facemask grab was a quick pull and let-go. The Dallas lineman surely didn't intend to have his hand end up in the facemask of his teammate but nevertheless it happened. I work high school games. Although I've never seen a facemask infraction of this nature, I would make the call and enforce the penalty. Safety being my motivator.

Rich Tue Jan 15, 2008 06:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderfan
regarding facemask infractions... During the Dallas-Giants game, a replay of a run, I was certain I saw a Dallas lineman pull the facemask of his teammate who was the runner. The talking heads were talking about something else which was the reason for the replay and there was no flag on the play. The facemask grab was a quick pull and let-go. The Dallas lineman surely didn't intend to have his hand end up in the facemask of his teammate but nevertheless it happened. I work high school games. Although I've never seen a facemask infraction of this nature, I would make the call and enforce the penalty. Safety being my motivator.

You have got to be kidding. I would *love* to be a fly on the coach's leg when you tried to explain that.

raiderfan Tue Jan 15, 2008 07:21am

If it happened once and I didn't call it.... then it happens again and the runner becomes injured .. now what ??? Safety always comes first

waltjp Tue Jan 15, 2008 07:49am

I think you're forgetting a very important word there - opponent.

FED 9.4.3.h No player or nonplayer shall grasp an opponent’s face mask or any edge of a helmet opening.

Bob M. Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderfan
If it happened once and I didn't call it.... then it happens again and the runner becomes injured .. now what ??? Safety always comes first

REPLY: I really hope you're kidding. Please don't ever flag a personal foul for a player against a teammate. You'll be explaining that one for years.

Forksref Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob M.
REPLY: I really hope you're kidding. Please don't ever flag a personal foul for a player against a teammate. You'll be explaining that one for years.

Let the family settle their own squabble.

Rich Tue Jan 15, 2008 07:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by raiderfan
If it happened once and I didn't call it.... then it happens again and the runner becomes injured .. now what ??? Safety always comes first

Making up your own rules is OK as long as it's for "safety?"

GMAFB.

bigjohn Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:12am

I think you could make a case for helping the runner though! :)

Welpe Thu Jan 17, 2008 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn
I think you could make a case for helping the runner though! :)

Maybe if he's dragging the runner upfield by the face mask. I don't think we can call intentional grounding though, sorry coach! ;)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1