5 Yard Face Mask Enforcement

[SDREGIIBB]

Play Situation: Team A ball 1st and Ten on their 30 yard line. A1 receives a hand off and runs for 2 yards. On the tackle (end of run) B1 grasps and releases A1's facemask (5 yard variety). Is the correct penalty enforcement to add the 5 yard penalty to the end of the run and replay the down, resulting in 1 and 3 or is the down not replayed in this case?

I am unable to find this enforcement clearly detailed in either the rule or casebook.

[Rich]

It is a live ball foul and it is not one that results in the loss of the right to replay the down. 1st and 3 if accepted.

Rich

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Edited to add: I was speaking about fouls in general -- there are no live ball fouls that result in a loss of down. However, there can be fouls after the play (dead ball) that are enforced but the down "counts."

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Sep 29th, 2003 at 11:33 AM]

[SDREGIIBB]

Thanks...is there a spot of reference in either the rule or case book?

[mikesears]

Originally posted by SDREGIIBB
Thanks...is there a spot of reference in either the rule or case book?

The defense cannot commit a loss of down foul. Imagine if it were 4 & 20 at A-20 yard line. A1 is dragged down by the facemask alone at the A-22. Would it be fair to turn the ball over to the defense after the foul?


Where is that FAQ section? This seems to be cropping up a lot this year

[BktBallRef]

All live ball fouls by the defense result in the down being replayed, unless the play and/or penalty results in a 1st down.

Enforcements are not always "clearly detailed in either the rule or casebook." You have to read and know several rules and apply each one in many situations.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by SDREGIIBB
Thanks...is there a spot of reference in either the rule or case book?

Look in rule 5
NF..5-2-2 . . . "When a foul occurs during a scrimmage down and before any change of team possession, and before a receiver is first to touch a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the neutral zone, the ball belongs to A after enforcement...

"The number of the next down is the same as that of the down during which the foul occurred"...

unless penalty acceptance includes a first down or loss of down, or the enforcement or the advance results in a first down. The loss of down aspect of a penalty has no significance following a change of possession or if the line to gain is reached after enforcement".

[tchaap]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[Edited to add: I was speaking about fouls in general -- there are no live ball fouls that result in a loss of down. However, there can be fouls after the play (dead ball) that are enforced but the down "counts."

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Sep 29th, 2003 at 11:33 AM] [/B]

I thought that on a forward pass, ball hitting an ineligible receiver was a loss of down?

[Rich]

I should've just left myself ambiguous -- I'm getting myself into trouble.

I meant "live ball fouls on the defense." Of course on the offense OPI, illegal forward pass, and illegal handing all carry a loss of down.

I'll shut up now

Rich

[Theisey]

I thought that on a forward pass, ball hitting an ineligible receiver was a loss of down?

It depends.
In one case, it takes more than hitting the ineligible. That A-player would have to have batted, muffed or actually caught the forward pass while in or behind the NZ.
Big difference than just being hit in the back with the pass.

The other case is if that A-player was beyond the NZ. In that case, all the has to happen is for the pass to hit the ineligible. Now you have OPI which will carry a LOD if accepted. You also have an ineligible downfield, but that choice does not come with the LOD, so it would not really be a choice to consider.