a11 Offense - 11 potentially eligible receivers

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

Answer: This goes to the heart of what has been tracked and documented all along - Piedmont already underwent a serious off-season review regarding this offense for: numbering of potentially eligible players, scrimmage kick offense, being in the spirit of the rules and potentially making a travesty of the game. And...Piedmont's offense already passed all of those tests and more - otherwise the A-11 would have never seen the light of day, etc. In terms of teams get creative and then rules are changed to outlaw what they are doing...that would be fine and dandy if Piedmont had not already undergone the entire evaluation process beforehand, and if the majority of the feedback had not been so good.

Yes, it passed the test, it is legal. That has nothing to do with the rules committee deciding that the A-11 is not the intent of the numbering exception and adopting the NCAA rule.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

2. The question about keeping a balance between offense and defense raises a great point...and there is not a "football" man in the country that believes an overall Piedmont record of 7 - 4 in anyway shape or form conveys an unworthy balance in favor of the offense vs. the defense.

7 - 4 is not 10 -1 or 11 - 0, etc. It is a good record but not great.

Maybe Piedmont would have been 3-8 without the A-11.

And it does create a change in the game. In a normal offense there are 5 players numbered 50-79 who will never be eligible to catch a forward pass. The defense can easily identify who is eligible and who is not. The A-11 changes that.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

And, if smaller Offensive teams must play larger and physically superior Defensive teams based on league scheduling and/or alignment Classification set forth by state or local governing bodies...then doesn't the A-11 help keep that balance so the smaller offensive teams can be more competitive against the larger Defensive ones?

No. The NFHS (or any rules makers) do not write the rules to allow smaller (less talented) schools to have a better chance at beating larger (more talented) schools. You are completely missing the point. The rules create a balance between the offense and the defense, not between good teams and not so good teams.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

*Repsectfully, that was the overwhelming opinion of nearly everybody who had hands on experience with the A-11 this past season. Realistically, does anyone truly believe the NFHS and CIF are going to discount that pure fact?

I have no idea what the CIF does, but it would not surprise me if the NFHS decided that the A-11 was not the intent of the numbering exception and adopted the NCAA rule.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

It was the Number One compliment put forth about the A-11, that it allowed smaller Offensive Teams to more evenly compete vs. their Larger Defensive Foes.

Replace smaller with bad and larger with good and see if everyone still feels the same.

"A-11 allows bad Offensive Teams to more evenly compete vs. their good Defensive Foes."

Should the rules be written to give less talented teams a better shot at winning?

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

It was the Number One compliment put forth about the A-11, that it allowed smaller Offensive Teams to more evenly compete vs. their Larger Defensive Foes.

Otherwise, there would be no point in utilizing an offense like the A-11...so again in Reality, the A-11 is in line with the NFHS Mission of helping to keep things competitve between Offense and Defense.

You just contradicted yourself. You said that the A-11 creates a balance between the offense of small schools and the defense of large schools (giving the offense an advantage in some way). Then you say that it creates a balance between the offense and the defense. You can't have it both ways.

Personally, I think the A-11 is a great idea. But I also think that it is exploiting the numbering exception. A great idea within the rules, but I would not be surprised if the rules were changed to make it illegal.

I think you should accept the fact that the A-11 was not the intended use of the numbering exception, and that there is a good possibility that the NFHS will eventually adopt the NCAA rule, especially if the A-11 becomes more widespread.

[KurtBryan]

LDUB:

Thank you for a stirring debate and although we see things differently on this issue, it still begs these and other questions:

1. Why do the NFHS rules have to be exactly like the NCAA, when the NCAA rules are not exactly like its superior - the NFL?

Answer...it doesn't and they don't. Each group has some varying rules due to talent, draft, money, scholarships, and overall goals of the governing bodies.

For example, since the NFL has the "best of the best" players, it requires Two Feet inbounds for it to be a completed pass and not one foot, as you know.

2. After the A-11 already underwent a very thorough pre-season review before it was approved on all of those previously mentioned points, it is slightly misleading (although I do not think you were trying to do so) to state the A-11 does not meet the intent of the rules - when it already has met and been within the fold of the intent and been ruled upon as such. Otherwise, it would have never made it through the reveiw process intact.

**Also, and I am using the next two items as a slight supplement to bolster my opinion and Not as the primary ticket... OK?

What about those high school football teams who either:

a. do not have enough OL players to fully meet the Eligibility numbering requirments in every situation in football - but have enough players to legally field a team?

Maybe they have only 17 - 20 players on their team and only 4 OL, etc.

Or...

b. do not have the funds to purchase the exact numbered jerseys to meet the numbering requirements?

I have personally coached against teams like that each of the past two years. Those teams had some extremely talented players but either not enough money or correctly numbered players to meet all of the criteria each time. And that problem is not only found in our area but around other parts of the country as well.

** My point is, the NFHS understands the KIDS must always come first and some flexibility must be maintained to keep things even between the offense and defense as you stated earlier. All is not black and white in the amateur world of high school football.

Everything else is secondary to the overall experience for the kids.

*** If the NFHS and CIF thought the A-11 was in any way Bad for the game or violated any of the aforementioned intent of the rules - they would have killed it from the get go.

However, they let it run and fortunately it turned out well and good for the high school kids.

Is that fair enough?

Kurt

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

2. After the A-11 already underwent a very thorough pre-season review before it was approved on all of those previously mentioned points, it is slightly misleading (although I do not think you were trying to do so) to state the A-11 does not meet the intent of the rules - when it already has met and been within the fold of the intent and been ruled upon as such. Otherwise, it would have never made it through the reveiw process intact.

Can the NFHS say "our rules say it is legal but you can't do it"?

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

a. do not have enough OL players to fully meet the Eligibility numbering requirments in every situation in football - but have enough players to legally field a team?

Maybe they have only 17 - 20 players on their team and only 4 OL, etc.

Coach to one of the 17-20 players: "You are playing offensive tackle this week and wearing #63"

Now they have 5 offensive linemen.

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

b. do not have the funds to purchase the exact numbered jerseys to meet the numbering requirements?

So the school has enough money to buy jerseys for every member of the team but they cannot afford to have at least 5 of them be numbered 50-79? How exactly does that work?

Can you answer these questions?

1. Why are teams required to have at least 5 linemen numbered 50-79?
2. Why are teams allowed to have fewer than 5 when they line up to make a scrimmage kick?
3. Does the A-11 use the same numbering philosophy as the previous questions?

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Can you answer these questions?

1. Why are teams required to have at least 5 linemen numbered 50-79?
2. Why are teams allowed to have fewer than 5 when they line up to make a scrimmage kick?
3. Does the A-11 use the same numbering philosophy as the previous questions?

LDUB - EXCELLENT!!!!! This is EXACTLY what the entire thing boils down to and address the issue much better than the coach's weak "excuses" for the A11

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by TXMike

LDUB - EXCELLENT!!!!! This is EXACTLY what the entire thing boils down to and address the issue much better than the coach's weak "excuses" for the A11

Same questions were asked on another site and have not yet been answered.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by LDUB

2. Why are teams allowed to have fewer than 5 when they line up to make a scrimmage kick?

This is no more or less than a special favor to the many teams who like to sub players in in kicking situations who play other positions in other situations. For a while they allowed them instead to wear pullovers with other numbers.

It would be exactly the same if enough coaches were subbing players in similarly in passing situations. Which it seems A-11 does.

Robert

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

b. do not have the funds to purchase the exact numbered jerseys to meet the numbering requirements?

LMAO!

So the company that you buy your jerseys from charges you excessively more for jerseys numbered 50-79 as opposed to eligible numbers 1-49 and 80-99?

Please coach, don't insult our intelligence.