Double Foul???

[DrMooreReferee]

A's ball on B's 40. A runs the ball and gets to the 30 of B when A22 fumbles the ball. During this run, A75 gets called for holding at the B 35. B23 picks up the fumble at B's 30 and begins his run. He makes it to B's 40 where he is tackled by his facemask. On B23's run, B50 is called for a block in the back at B's 30.

Please tell me what options are available and who has the options.

[ABO77]

Shootin from the hip, double foul? maybe...B got it with "clean hands" sooo if B excepts any of A's fouls its a double foul. Decline the multi fouls on A and enforce B's foul, B 1st and 10 on the 20.

[raiderfan]

I'll take a stab. I's new and don't have my books available..

B will decline A75's hold in order to keep possession. If B accepts A75's hold the other two infractions are ignored.

A captain will accept B50's block in the back at B's 30. That will move the ball back to B's 20.

B's captain will then accept the facemask penalty and the ball will move to B's 35.

1st and 10 ... clock starts at the snap

I'm probably wrong on some or all of this ,, but I should learn an awful lot

Thanks

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

A's ball on B's 40. A runs the ball and gets to the 30 of B when A22 fumbles the ball. During this run, A75 gets called for holding at the B 35. B23 picks up the fumble at B's 30 and begins his run. He makes it to B's 40 where he is tackled by his facemask. On B23's run, B50 is called for a block in the back at B's 30.

Please tell me what options are available and who has the options.

CANADIAN RULING (and how the R should think when sorting through this play):

There are three fouls:

• Team A hold
• Team B blocking from the rear
• Team A facemask

A's UR-FM will be applied no matter what - so you can add that to the end of whatever happens between the first two.

First foul is by A so B gets to decide who gets the ball:

• • B 1D/10 @ PBH of B/BFR
• LTG not reached at time of A/Hold:
  • A repeat the down @ B-50
• LTG is reached:
  • A 1D/10 @ PBH of Hold - 10 yards

[bisonlj]

I'm pretty sure this is a double foul since both A and B committed live ball fouls after the change of posession. I'm just not sure if the ball stays with B at the point of the COP or the entire down is replayed and A has the ball. Neither one sounds right so I'm going to check the books. You definitely wouldn't apply both after the COP.

The other possibility is B declines A's first penalty and then declines the facemask as well in order to keep the ball. The block in the back is then enforced. I wish I had my books with me so I could verify if a team has a choice to decline a penalty on a double foul.

That reminds me of a situation we had earlier this year. Team A has a 70 yard run to the B 3 yard line. At about the B 5 yard line, there is a block in the back by A. As the runner is being tackled, there is a face mask penalty by B. The penalties were offset and the down replayed back at the A 27 yard line. Could A have declined the face mask so they could take the ball first and 10 at the B 13 yard line? At the time I thought it was unfair that B gained an advantage BECAUSE of the foul.

[MRH]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

A's ball on B's 40. A runs the ball and gets to the 30 of B when A22 fumbles the ball. During this run, A75 gets called for holding at the B 35. B23 picks up the fumble at B's 30 and begins his run. He makes it to B's 40 where he is tackled by his facemask. On B23's run, B50 is called for a block in the back at B's 30.

Please tell me what options are available and who has the options.

B received the ball with "clean hands" so they are entitled to keep the ball providing they decline BOTH penalties by A. The penalty during the runback against B will be enforced from the spot of the foul. B will put the ball in play from their 20.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by MRH

B received the ball with "clean hands" so they are entitled to keep the ball providing they decline BOTH penalties by A. The penalty during the runback against B will be enforced from the spot of the foul. B will put the ball in play from their 20.

Then I did have it right. What do you think about the situation I posed in my previous post? Should we have given A the choice to decline the face mask to get the ball at the 13 yard line (actually 15 if you enforce correctly from the 5)?

[Patton]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

That reminds me of a situation we had earlier this year. Team A has a 70 yard run to the B 3 yard line. At about the B 5 yard line, there is a block in the back by A. As the runner is being tackled, there is a face mask penalty by B. The penalties were offset and the down replayed back at the A 27 yard line. Could A have declined the face mask so they could take the ball first and 10 at the B 13 yard line? At the time I thought it was unfair that B gained an advantage BECAUSE of the foul.

Rule 10-2-1...It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which: a. There is no change of team possession, unless all fouls committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls.

It goes on to say that in (a), (b) or (c), the penalties cancel and the down is replayed.

So in this case, no one is given options and the down is replayed. You're right, B's own foul did become a huge advantage for them.

[wisref2]

Check the casebook on rule 10-2. B got the ball with clean hands. They can decline all of A's fouls and keep the ball.

Don't have the book with me, but the explanation under one of the plays (it might be 10-2-2) is clearer than the rule. It doesn't matter how many fouls A had a a play in which there is a change of possession, nor does it matter when they happened.