Hmmm..........what do you think?

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If you do it in Ohio, it makes it correct.....in Ohio. The rest of us can continue to think it's a stupid thing to bring to the field.

So how do other states handle rule 3.5.2.c? Does the coach request a Time Out to review the rule, you say ok, go over to him and say, "I’m right, your wrong, you have two time outs left, second down".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

So how do other states handle rule 3.5.2.c? Does the coach request a Time Out to review the rule, you say ok, go over to him and say, "I’m right, your wrong, you have two time outs left, second down".

Absolutely.

He is the coach. *I* am the referee. I'll listen and if there's been a mistake, we'll correct it.

If he's incorrect, he gets charged with a timeout and life goes on. But I get to decide that.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Absolutely.

He is the coach. *I* am the referee. I'll listen and if there's been a mistake, we'll correct it.

If he's incorrect, he gets charged with a timeout and life goes on. But I get to decide that.

Unless, of course, you are unsure/ mistaken about a rule, in which case you are screwed as is the coach and his players. All which could be avoided if only you had access to the information.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by parepat

Unless, of course, you are unsure/ mistaken about a rule, in which case you are screwed as is the coach and his players. All which could be avoided if only you had access to the information.

All of which could be avoided if you studied the rules. In the middle of a game is a poor time to be learning the rules.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by parepat

Unless, of course, you are unsure/ mistaken about a rule, in which case you are screwed as is the coach and his players. All which could be avoided if only you had access to the information.

Ok here's the scenario:

QB A1 runs 10 yds beyond the LOS then throws illegal forward pass.
Basic spot is from end of run. But wait! Defensive coach says the penalty should be marked from LOS. You inform him that the basic spot on running plays is from end of run. he insists this is a loose ball play and basic spot is LOS.
Are you going to pull out the rulebook, waste 5 minutes and set a dangerous precedent just to prove you're right? Or are you going to politely tell coach to look it up on his own time?

Unless you use the book to justify your interp every time the coach questions you I can't see ever using the book because here's the problem, if you know you're right you're not going to pull out the book to prove it(at least I hope you don't) If you're mistaken, you don't know you're mistaken, you think you're right so you're not pullin the book out to prove it. If you're not sure you consult with your crew and if you all come up with the same mistake you'll have the confidence of your crew behind you and you won't pull the book out to prove it. If the crew is split on the rules app question I'm sure one of you will have the confidence to say I know the rule and this is it. So again no rule book needed to prove it.

If you have an entire crew weak on rules and weak on selling ability then perhaps the book would be helpful

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by CO ump

If you have an entire crew weak on rules and weak on selling ability then perhaps the book would be helpful

While I carry the books per regulation, it is my belief complex rules often require multiple rule citations something best done in a clinic.

Here are two situations that necessiated the rule book:

A on a field goal attempt. B11 standing inbounds jumps and tips the ball such that it goes over the goal post. Official disallowed the field goal incorrectly. Would the book have helped?

Fourth and 15 for A from B's 40. A32 runs to B's 30. B64 dives and late hits A32. Officials place the ball on B's 15 first and ten for A. A scores and the win is enough to put them in the playoffs, without the win no playoffs. Would and should the book have been helpful?

We are human in spite of the funny looking shirt.

[Mike L]

Chances of me or any crewmate having a rule book on or near the field....absolutely zero. You want to destroy any resemblance of professionalism, stand there looking thru a rule book during a game. I couldn't care less how Ohio does it because, thankfully, I don't deal with Ohio rules. That policy is just asking for trouble despite misplaced good intentions. Study the friggin rules and it becomes moot!!
Number of times I've been questioned about what the coach thinks is a rule question but is really a judgement question...tons. Number of times it actually was a rule question...once and for the same thing as the original post. Amazing when I told the coach the exact conditions that had to be met in order for him to keep the ball, that was that.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

While I carry the books per regulation, it is my belief complex rules often require multiple rule citations something best done in a clinic.

Here are two situations that necessiated the rule book:

A on a field goal attempt. B11 standing inbounds jumps and tips the ball such that it goes over the goal post. Official disallowed the field goal incorrectly. Would the book have helped?

If it's a well-written rule book, such as Fed's ca. 1980, yes. If it's a badly written one such as NFL's or CFL's from around that time, no!

Obviously this isn't anything an official can do anything about. Rather, it's a criterion for judging how well a rule book is written. If the book is written well, you should be able to look anything up and get a definitive answer quickly. If it's not, you get into situations where you have to look thru the whole book, end to end, to see if a particular provision out-specifies a general one your eyes might've hit elsewhere.

In practice, what officials do with all but the best written rule books is to rearrange them in their heads. Even if the rule book is among the best written, I'm not saying you should actually refer to it during administration of a game, but that's the ideal that the writers of the rules should aim for.

Robert

[parepat]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Ok here's the scenario:

QB A1 runs 10 yds beyond the LOS then throws illegal forward pass.
Basic spot is from end of run. But wait! Defensive coach says the penalty should be marked from LOS. You inform him that the basic spot on running plays is from end of run. he insists this is a loose ball play and basic spot is LOS.
Are you going to pull out the rulebook, waste 5 minutes and set a dangerous precedent just to prove you're right? Or are you going to politely tell coach to look it up on his own time?

I would not pull out the rule book unless I was unclear on the rule.

Unless you use the book to justify your interp every time the coach questions you I can't see ever using the book because here's the problem, if you know you're right you're not going to pull out the book to prove it(at least I hope you don't) If you're mistaken, you don't know you're mistaken, you think you're right so you're not pullin the book out to prove it. If you're not sure you consult with your crew and if you all come up with the same mistake you'll have the confidence of your crew behind you and you won't pull the book out to prove it. If the crew is split on the rules app question I'm sure one of you will have the confidence to say I know the rule and this is it. So again no rule book needed to prove it.

If you have an entire crew weak on rules and weak on selling ability then perhaps the book would be helpful

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If I am are not sure I can pull out the rule book. You can not. Enough said .

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by parepat

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If I am are not sure I can pull out the rule book. You can not. Enough said .

You refuse to see the big picture. Nothing we can do about that, I suppose.

But I will say this - the first time you pull out the rulebook on the field, you will hear a relentless never-ending litany of arguments about the rules from both sidelines. Do you really want this?

Yes - we on rare occasions make mistakes ... but to pull out the book every time we have a question DURING a game opens up a huge mess that you really don't want any part of.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You refuse to see the big picture. Nothing we can do about that, I suppose.

But I will say this - the first time you pull out the rulebook on the field, you will hear a relentless never-ending litany of arguments about the rules from both sidelines. Do you really want this?

Yes - we on rare occasions make mistakes ... but to pull out the book every time we have a question DURING a game opens up a huge mess that you really don't want any part of.

The big picture is simply that you and those like you have an ego that overshadows the reason why you are out there.

Unlike you, I HAVE been in a game where we pulled out the book. Guess what, NONE of the things you described occured.

No one ever said that you pull out the book "everytime we have a question".

It simply doesn't happen.

I understand that you are confident in your rules knowledge, as am I. However, there will come a time at some point where both of us would benefit from access to the rule or case book. In those occassions it is my opinion that I would swallow my pride, go to the book and get the call right.

You and others like you feel that the harm of this outweighs the need to get the call right. I get it. I don't agree with it but I get it.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by parepat

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. .

I agree!
It was a long winded way to say rule books do not belong on the field. Period!

Originally Posted by parepat

If I am are not sure I can pull out the rule book. You can not. Enough said .

I disagree
I can pull out the rule book if I had it with me and so chose, I simply choose not to open pandoras box.

Some officials choose to talk to assistants as if they were the HC, others do not. Some officials will engage sideline spectators, others choose not to. Some officials keep the whisle in their mouth, others choose not to. Some officials look up rules during the game, others choose not to.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by CO ump

I agree!
It was a long winded way to say rule books do not belong on the field. Period!




I disagree
I can pull out the rule book if I had it with me and so chose, I simply choose not to open pandoras box.

Some officials choose to talk to assistants as if they were the HC, others do not. Some officials will engage sideline spectators, others choose not to. Some officials keep the whisle in their mouth, others choose not to. Some officials look up rules during the game, others choose not to.

This is the point. If you Choose not to bring it, you can't refer to it.