Foul on player who is OB

[sj]

This almost happened and got me to thinking. I had a BIB and the touchdown had to be brought back because B1 was still in bounds but what would the ruling be in the following?


2nd and 10 for Team A at the B40 yard line. A1 is running a sweep. B1 is in pursuit from behind. They are both making the turn upfield at the sideline and A1 is now heading straight upfield. However B1 rounds out his turn in such a way that he goes out of bounds at the B35 yard line. B1, while still out of bounds and still definitively acting like he will try to make the tackle, is blocked in the back by A2 at the B32 yard line and A1 continues on for a touchdown.

[JRutledge]

You could call either a BIB or maybe a personal foul. I would bring the ball back to the spot of the penalty and enforce from there.

What is the question?

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by sj

This almost happened and got me to thinking. I had a BIB and the touchdown had to be brought back because B1 was still in bounds but what would the ruling be in the following?

2nd and 10 for Team A at the B40 yard line. A1 is running a sweep. B1 is in pursuit from behind. They are both making the turn upfield at the sideline and A1 is now heading straight upfield. However B1 rounds out his turn in such a way that he goes out of bounds at the B35 yard line. B1, while still out of bounds and still definitively acting like he will try to make the tackle, is blocked in the back by A2 at the B32 yard line and A1 continues on for a touchdown.

B1 left the field on his own accord. If he comes back into play, it is done illegally. Should A2 be penalized for interferring with a player who if participates again, will be flagged for IP?

Hmm....

Edit: to satisfy Rut.

[JRutledge]

Leaving the field is not illegal in any code that I am aware of. Maybe that is what it is in Canada, but not in NF or NCAA. Do you have a reference to any NF or NCAA Rules (I do not care about Canada rules).

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Leaving the field is not illegal in any code that I am aware of. Maybe that is what it is in Canada, but not in NF or NCAA. Do you have a reference to any NF or NCAA Rules (I do not care about Canada rules).

Peace

I editted my response for better clarity.

And thanks for clarifying about your thoughts on the Canadian game. We were all wondering.

[rdfox]

NF...The only restriction on leaving the field applies to A or K and even then there is an exception if A or K was blocked OB and he returns at his first opportunity. B can leave and return anytime he wants.

I agree that the penalty should be enforced from the yardline spot of the foul...but if A went out OB to make the hit and then returned (i.e. one foot hit the sideline but his other foot then hit inbounds), then you will have a 15-yard illegal participation penalty rather than 10-yard BIB.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

B1 left the field on his own accord. If he comes back into play, it is done illegally. Should A2 be penalized for interferring with a player who if participates again, will be flagged for IP?

Hmm....

Edit: to satisfy Rut.

Hitting someone in the back is not allowed just because someone else committed a foul. And based on the OP it is not clear that B1 even committed a foul. B can leave the field accidentally (B and R can do this) and if they are avoiding a small pile that does not mean they did so illegally. They do have to come back at the first opportunity. But they were not given an opportunity possibly by being hit out of bounds.

Since you are so concerned about if IP took place, this would be two live ball fouls that would create a double foul. This would mean you replay the down if both fouls are accepted (which you would not ask). But the problem is B1 never came back into the field of play, so you cannot have an IP foul.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rdfox

I agree that the penalty should be enforced from the yardline spot of the foul...but if A went out OB to make the hit and then returned (i.e. one foot hit the sideline but his other foot then hit inbounds), then you will have a 15-yard illegal participation penalty rather than 10-yard BIB.

Any player can go out of bounds; it is just A and K that cannot return without penalty. So it would not be a penalty on A unless they returned to the playing field. So IP could not be penalized in this example unless A decided to come back into play. If they stay out of bounds, all you could have is a BIB.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I editted my response for better clarity.

And thanks for clarifying about your thoughts on the Canadian game. We were all wondering.

Your response may be clear ... but it's still wrong. It's not illegal for B to leave the field and return during a play.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Your response may be clear ... but it's still wrong. It's not illegal for B to leave the field and return during a play.

Actually it would be illegal if B intentionally left and returned. No player can do that. The problem is that B did not come back into play.

NF Rule 9-6-1 (I am not sure about the NCAA Rule, you are from Texas. )

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Your response may be clear ... but it's still wrong. It's not illegal for B to leave the field and return during a play.

So a B cornerback leaves the field because he believes he is the 12th player on the field.

He leaves in such a way that a path to the EZ is open for ball carrier A1. A1 sees nothing but daylight ahead of him and seeing that B is OOB, takes this open path.

B then comes back IB and can legally tackle A1?

If so, ya'll need to clean that act up. Just my humble opinion of course.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So a B cornerback leaves the field because he believes he is the 12th player on the field.

He leaves in such a way that a path to the EZ is open for ball carrier A1. A1 sees nothing but daylight ahead of him and seeing that B is OOB, takes this open path.

B then comes back IB and can legally tackle A1?

If so, ya'll need to clean that act up. Just my humble opinion of course.

It's nice to see that NF Rule 9-6-1 exists.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually it would be illegal if B intentionally left and returned. No player can do that. The problem is that B did not come back into play.

NF Rule 9-6-1 (I am not sure about the NCAA Rule, you are from Texas. )

Peace

This may be a matter of interpretation ... but a defensive player who has unintentionally contacted the sideline, or was forced slightly wide should be significantly different than a player who actually leaves the field (as in CanadaRef's scenario).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This may be a matter of interpretation ... but a defensive player who has unintentionally contacted the sideline, or was forced slightly wide should be significantly different than a player who actually leaves the field (as in CanadaRef's scenario).

It is not a matter of interpretation, I am telling you what the rule says. And it is never illegal to just run out of bounds. You do not throw the flag until they come back in after you have determined they went out of bounds intentionally.

So if a player runs out of bounds, I do not see any rule that allows them to be cheap shot because they might potentially foul. B has not done anything in this scenario that would be IP yet. Now if they come back in that is another story all together.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Whether you or I are right about the ability for B to return in a situation as described in the OP, both of us agree that B's existence out of bounds doesn't give A the right to BIB or PF him, and that you definitely have a foul on A on this play.

Note - I've reread the relevant sections of the NCAA book, and can find no reference at all to B or R players who have left the field, other than those who have been replaced or left the field before the play starts.