What Foul Is This?

[Ed Hickland]

First and 10 for A at their two yard line. A21 fades back to pass (not a smart thing to do) and becomes surrounded by B players. Unable to throw to any receiver he simply shovels the ball forward toward the feet of the linemen in order to get it out of the end zone.

Is this a foul?

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

First and 10 for A at their two yard line. A21 fades back to pass (not a smart thing to do) and becomes surrounded by B players. Unable to throw to any receiver he simply shovels the ball forward toward the feet of the linemen in order to get it out of the end zone.

Is this a foul?

Illegal pass (intentional grounding). Foul by the offense in their endzone results in a safety.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

First and 10 for A at their two yard line. A21 fades back to pass (not a smart thing to do) and becomes surrounded by B players. Unable to throw to any receiver he simply shovels the ball forward toward the feet of the linemen in order to get it out of the end zone.

Is this a foul?

CANADIAN RULING:

Deliberate grounding. Option for B: decline the penalty and take the pass as incomplete or accept the penalty and earn two points for a safety touch.

[DSMitchell]

My apologies for seeming a novice but I actually am.

Can't team B refuse the penalty?

What if it was 4th down for A, a refusal of the penalty would mean 1st and goal for team B at the A-2.

Is that right?

[waltjp]

No, it's a safety either way. An accepted penalty will result in enforcement from A's end zone, which is a safety. If the penalty is declined the ball will be marked from the end of the run, which is in the end zone. Again, a safety.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by waltjp

No, it's a safety either way. An accepted penalty will result in enforcement from A's end zone, which is a safety. If the penalty is declined the ball will be marked from the end of the run, which is in the end zone. Again, a safety.

Why would it be marked from the end of the run if the intentional grounding is declined? Why would it not be simply an incomplete forward pass if the penalty was declined?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Why would it be marked from the end of the run if the intentional grounding is declined? Why would it not be simply an incomplete forward pass if the penalty was declined?

Whether the penalty is accepted or not the end of the run is the point from where the illegal pass was thrown. This is the spot of enforcement and, if the penalty is declined, the spot where the ball will next be put in play.

Fed 10-5-4 If the offensive team throws an illegal forward pass from its end zone or commits any other foul for which the penalty is accepted and measurement is from on or behind its goal line, it is a safety.

[RazorRef]

Originally Posted by waltjp

No, it's a safety either way. An accepted penalty will result in enforcement from A's end zone, which is a safety. If the penalty is declined the ball will be marked from the end of the run, which is in the end zone. Again, a safety.

I don't agree with this. It was an incomplete foward pass. If it was 4th down, it's now B's ball at the previous spot. That is if they don't accept the Safety from the penalty.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RazorRef

I don't agree with this. It was an incomplete foward pass. If it was 4th down, it's now B's ball at the previous spot. That is if they don't accept the Safety from the penalty.

You're not going back to the previous spot on this play. This does not meet the definition of a loose-ball play. Fed 10-3-1 b. A loose-ball play is action during a legal forward pass.

Table 7-5 identifies the spot of enforcement as the end of the run, which is in the end zone. Safety. Also reference rule 10-5-4.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by DSMitchell

My apologies for seeming a novice but I actually am.

Can't team B refuse the penalty?

What if it was 4th down for A, a refusal of the penalty would mean 1st and goal for team B at the A-2.

Is that right?

In Canada, yes, B can decline the penalty. Obviously, that is likely a better option for B. Why not let B choose to take that option?