Blocking below the waist.

[Agreen_14]

Hey Jim if you can, shoot a situation at me and I'll try to give the proper enforcement call using this method.

[Jim D]

You asked for it!

K is punting from their own 8 yard line - 4th and 12. K1 drops the snap and to prevent R from recovering the fumble, he kicks the ball at the 4 yard line into the end zone and out the back.

What are the options? It sounds comlicated but if you follow the above steps, you'll get it.

[Agreen_14]

It's a safety. If the force is the kick or any other "new" force by K then the ruling is a safety.

[Jim D]

The result of the play is a saftey but what if R decides K's kicker is poor so they accept the penalty. What is enforcement?

[Agreen_14]

I was affraid of this, I'm looking it up as we speak. I was 100% that is was a safety, but not sure what the enforcement of the penalty was... My first guess would be that the basic spot is the previous spot and the penalty is 15 yards, or half the distance to the goal in this situation??

[Jim D]

Yes but there is no need to guess. You have to learn the difference between loose ball plays and running plays. Since this is a fumble behind the line, it is a loose ball play. Then you have to know the basic spot, but that's easy since it is the previous spot for loose ball plays or the end of the run for running plays. Finally, you have to know the all but one principle but that's easy too.

Loose ball play
Basic spot is the previous spot (where the ball was snapped)
Foul by the offense behind the basic spot (the "one" in All but one) so we penalize half the distance from the spot of the foul (4 yard line). K will re-kick Fourth and 18 from the 2 yard line.

[Mike L]

I would avoid saying "A will re-kick" unless we are talking about free kicks. You have no guarantees that A will kick again even though it's very likely.

[Agreen_14]

Got it. I missed the all but one, haven't covered that yet so hopefully I'll understand it a little better when I get there. I had half the distance to the goal from the previous spot (8 yard line.)

It is a 15 yard penalty though if the kicker was to do that say at the 50 yard line?

[Agreen_14]

Originally Posted by Jim D

Loose ball play
Basic spot is the previous spot (where the ball was snapped)
Foul by the offense behind the basic spot (the "one" in All but one) so we penalize half the distance from the spot of the foul (4 yard line). K will re-kick Fourth and 18 from the 2 yard line.

Ok I've got it, just like if A would've been charged with holding behind the basic spot.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jim D

The result of the play is a saftey but what if R decides K's kicker is poor so they accept the penalty. What is enforcement?

They would be insane to accept the penalty, because it's so easy for team A to give up a safety on the repeated down if they want to.

As to the business of what rule set to answer under, it might be a good idea if the original poster asks a question, to specify in the subject line of the thread "Fed:" or "NCAA:" or "Football Canada:", etc. In rec.sport.officiating it got confusing when someone posted a question that might be about baseball, softball, cricket, or even other sports using some of the same terms (such as DQ of a player), until that convention was (mostly) adopted. Here we have division into different sports, but it can usually be sliced much finer, especially in football. And if you're interested in rulings of other bodies, then please don't specify one in the subject line and don't get bugged if someone gratuitously supplied more info than you need.

Robert