SCAB officials

[jjrye22]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I could care less if Oklahoma officials come to Texas to work a PeeWee game.

And they would NEVER come to Texas to work a bigtime HS game involving only Texas teams. Coaches would not stand for it, nor would UIL. Both of whom realize they would be unable to get better officials than what they have at "home".

Guess that tells you the difference between Canada and Texas doesn't it?

That seems a little harsh Mike and out of character for you. You are usually a very polite and respectful to other officials.

What if the organization structure is different in Ontario than in Texas - and no one is allowed to work a game unless assigned by the association (like what we have in Germany). If the association refuses than the leauge would look around for other possibilities. That does not seem too much of a strech.

Instead you seem to imply that the local officials are less able than out of country people brought in.

Maybe I misunderstood you.

James

[TXMike]

Someone else tried to compare the situation in Canada to a similar one in Texas. All I said was that was an impossibility for precisely the reason I stated. I don't know if the Canadian officials were any more or less able than the group that was imported but apparently the league did not see a problem as they went ahead and brought them in. Frankly, I can see the league's position. The official's group had apparently taken a strong stand against this coach. If those officials had been permitted to ref the game and made calls that went against that coach's team, don't you know what the outcry would be?? PAYBACK !!! PAYBACK!!! So perhaps to avoid even the hint of conflict of interest, they chose to go elsewhere.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Someone else tried to compare the situation in Canada to a similar one in Texas. All I said was that was an impossibility for precisely the reason I stated. I don't know if the Canadian officials were any more or less able than the group that was imported but apparently the league did not see a problem as they went ahead and brought them in. Frankly, I can see the league's position.

Instead of saying that it's an impossibility, why not answer the question? I would imagine that the Canadian officials thought that it was an impossibility also.

Let's try again....

1) You're sitting in your dressing room somewhere in Texas, waiting to do a championship game that you have been assigned to. Someone comes in and says "Fuggedaboutit, we brought in a crew from Mexico and they're gonna do the game." That's fine with you, right, because the league thought it was OK? And the fact that the Mexican crew has never worked with the Texas NCAA ruleset used in the game isn't relevant either?

2) Someone phones you up from Mexico and says "I'd like your crew to cross the border, drive 300 miles and do a couple of championship football games." Would you not inquire as to what the hell was going on? And if you were told that you were asked in because of a dispute with a Mexican officiating body, you'd go anyway? And if you're also told that you would have to use Mexican rules, which are completely different than the rules used in Texas, and you've never worked a game under those rules before, that's still not a problem either?

Just want to make sure that I know where you're coming from......

[TXMike]

1 - Never happen. No way I can answer as it is a hypothetical that is beyond comprehension. (There have been very isolated situations where multiple crews have shown up for games and as long as everyone got paid, no biggy.)

2 - I actually HAVE gone to Mexico to work games and I knew why I was asked.

Seems to me all you care about is "feelings". The Canadian guys' feelings were hurt. We all get our feelings hurt from time to time. Be a man and get over it.

If your association feels it was wronged then perhaps you should direct the league to look elsewhere for officials in the future.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Seems to me all you care about is "feelings". The Canadian guys' feelings were hurt. We all get our feelings hurt from time to time. Be a man and get over it.

If your association feels it was wronged then perhaps you should direct the league to look elsewhere for officials in the future.

Seems to me that you simply refuse to answer those questions. Fine with me. I kinda expected that from you. I'll refrain from posting any other opinions; no need for a flame war. Btw, "feelings" isn't a factor, unless you call respect for my fellow officials no matter where they are located "feelings".

2) Got nuthin' to do with my association. I don't have a horse in the race. My point was that, personally, I respect other officials groups and I absolutely refuse to get involved in another group's dispute. Ever. Doing so would make me feel like a.....scab. That holds true for all disputes of this nature, no matter where they occur. That's just me also.

[TXMike]

Wounds do not heal without "scabs" so maybe that is what it will take to cure the wound up north.

[JugglingReferee]

As more and more details are arising about the situation, it appears that the league is even more bush that I originally thought. I will correct myself and say that the US refs are not scabs, but I do think they missed some due diligence. The whole situation is something crazy really.

Originally Posted by Niner

Interesting part of the article indicates that the striking officials union was paid in advance for the games and...

""They're breaking their contract, so there will probably be litigation after this," Rion said. "They (officials) are the only ones who get paid for their job in this (league) right now they're denying youth their championships."

Sad state of adulthood.

Rion has repeatedly offerd bad information to the officials, media, and US refs (assume that he contacted the US refs). He's not a relaible source.

TXMike: personally, I see the league improving because of this fiasco. People with first-hand knowledge have said that Rion was over his head in the league. If you don't see why the officials should take action because of a league not enforcing it's own policies where harrassment of an official is concerned, then perhaps you should stay to on-field duties. And as for your "never happen", that's what we thought here too. Nobody ever thinks that their house will be broken in to, that their car will be stolen, etc.... but that's when life hits ya.

The posted article/link is clearly against the officials because it doesn't clarify events that support the officials' stance, but focuses on the league's/Mills' stance. Even the article author can't copy and paste Rion correctly (find Ryan).

But as usual we will find out more and time progresses, and the officials will come out strong. Word is that Rion has resigned. Or is it that Ryan has resigned?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by SCAB

Would have been nice to know some of that info a week ago. Because questions were asked, and that link has given me a lot more info than I had last weekend.

I'm glad that you did do this... but what does it say when the league gave you less info than what was in that article, and the statements in that article were largely skewed?

You had the wool pulled over your eyes, and for that I'm sorry that such a thing happened to fellow officials.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I'm glad that you did do this... but what does it say when the league gave you less info than what was in that article, and the statements in that article were largely skewed?

You had the wool pulled over your eyes, and for that I'm sorry that such a thing happened to fellow officials.

Is this the first time ever that this league did not support the officials or fudged on one of their policies?

In my neck of the woods, if an association doesn't approve of league actions they simply terminate the contract and go on.
A new association steps in and officials work the games. Leagues shouldn't have to dissolve simply because one association doesn't like what they did.

IMO the associtation should have:
1. Negotiated in private with the association to work out the problems. Not make it a public debate.
2. After negotiating either Honor the contract or
3. Terminate the contract and walk away.

If they terminate the contract they shouldn't care what happens after.
If the association wanted this leagues business they shouldn't have publicly ridiculed them.

When my association picks up a new league I don't research the history of the previous associations dealings with that league, I simply do the games I'm assigned to.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) Got nuthin' to do with my association. I don't have a horse in the race. My point was that, personally, I respect other officials groups and I absolutely refuse to get involved in another group's dispute. Ever. Doing so would make me feel like a.....scab. That holds true for all disputes of this nature, no matter where they occur. That's just me also.

You truly are Jurassic
Back in the day when unions had a purpose crossing a picket line meant something. It's a brave new world

I would have no problem doing these games. I'm an arbiter of games not an enforcer of a leagues internal policies.
Who cares if the leagues policy of kicking a coach out of the league wasn't followed?
If the coach has a problem respecting officials it's a game management issue. I can take care of that in about 30 seconds and be on with the game.

What if the leagues policy was 8 strikes and you're out, and the coach was at 7, would there have been an issue?
Would the association have refused to take this league on as a customer?
It's the leagues policy NOT the associations policy that is not being enforced.
The referees need to manage the game and let the league tend to administration and off the field discipline.

If the association is scared of this coach then they should simply walk away and let the league go about their business. I'm not going to refuse a game simply because another official can't handle the heat.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

You truly are Jurassic


I'm not going to refuse a game simply because another official can't handle the heat.

And you truly are sad. No smiley attached.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

.

TXMike: personally, I see the league improving because of this fiasco. People with first-hand knowledge have said that Rion was over his head in the league. If you don't see why the officials should take action because of a league not enforcing it's own policies where harrassment of an official is concerned, then perhaps you should stay to on-field duties. And as for your "never happen", that's what we thought here too. Nobody ever thinks that their house will be broken in to, that their car will be stolen, etc.... but that's when life hits ya.

I definitely prefer to stay on-the-field and out of the political BS so no problemo there.

And your analogy re the criminal stuff is pretty poor one to use with me as I have had all those things happen to me. For me, the prospect of something like this happening in a big time Texas HS game is as likely to happen as is the chance that I would ever do a game under Canadian rules. Aint' happening.