Punt Formation

[HL Clippenchain]

I'm curious why the HL stays at the LOS on punts to note that the punt did travel past the LOS.

Why is this important?

Thanks in advance.
HLC

[boboman316]

I think there are two reasons...first being to help with the Referee if their is a bad snap, but the most important one is to make sure that the scrimmage kick passes the line. If the kick passes the LOS it can only be advanced by R, but if the kick does not pass the line of scrimmage, aka blocked kick, etc., the ball can be advanced by either K or R. So the HL needs to know if it passed the line.

[HL Clippenchain]

Thanks, Boboman.

What if it travels just past the LOS but while it's still in the air, it blows back behind the LOS and is recovered by K? R never touches it. Is it K's ball or R's?

Anyone that can help, it would be greatly appreciated. If you know the rule citing, that's a bonus too.

HLC

[Warrenkicker]

There are a few reasons we need to know where the ball is relative to lines.

Fair catch
6-5-2 It is a fair catch and the ball is dead if any receiver gives a valid fair-catch signal, as in Article 1, and he catches a free-kick in or beyond the neutral zone to R’s goal line, or a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone to R’s goal line.

K gaining possession of a scrimmage kick and advancing
6-2-3 Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is in or behind the neutral zone and advance, unless it is during a try.

PSK fouls
2-16-2h2 During a scrimmage kick play in which the ball crosses the expanded neutral zone.

Touching of low scrimmage kicks
6-2-6 The touching of a low scrimmage kick by any player is ignored if the touching is in or behind the expanded neutral zone. The neutral zone shall not be expanded into the end zone.

K gaining possession of a scrimmage kick anywhere
6-2-4 Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the neutral zone or the neutral zone expanded, provided such kick has been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching. Such touching is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball or it is caused by K legally batting or muffing the ball into R. Such catch or recovery by K beyond the neutral zone causes the ball to become dead. (See 6-5-6 Exception)

So there are a lot of reasons to keep someone on the sideline at the line-of-scrimmage who can watch where the ball goes and who touches it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HL Clippenchain

What if it travels just past the LOS but while it's still in the air, it blows back behind the LOS and is recovered by K? R never touches it. Is it K's ball or R's?

In all codes, the fact that the ball was in the air or on the ground beyond the neutral zone is irrelevant if while it was there it didn't touch and wasn't touched by a player of K (before or without being touched by R). In all USAn codes in that case, with K's recovery on K's side of the neutral zone, K's team possession continues, and the series of downs continues; this has been the case since 1930. In Canadian football, the right to the ball depends whether the recovering player was onside or offside, but the series of downs ends if the ball touched the ground on R's side of the LOS.

Robert

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In Canadian football, the right to the ball depends whether the recovering player was onside or offside, but the series of downs ends if the ball touched the ground on R's side of the LOS.

Hmmm.... mind if I look that one up?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Hmmm.... mind if I look that one up?

I don't know where it is now, but the amateur rule book used to have redundant coverage of this, listing it under "continuity of downs...interrupted" and also under kicking rules, while the CFL book just had it in one place. The ball had to be kicked across the LOS, which I think was ruled to occur only if it touched the ground or a person beyond the line, so in the case we're discussing now it would have to have been the ground. So you could just tap a punt across the line and fall on it (anywhere) for a 1st down.

A much older provision, which was verbatim in Canadian & USAn rules, had downs restart if a team by kicking the ball gave the other team "fair and equal" opp'ty to recover the ball, irrespective of other conditions of the kick.

Robert

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by HL Clippenchain

I'm curious why the HL stays at the LOS on punts to note that the punt did travel past the LOS.

Why is this important?

Thanks in advance.
HLC

CANADIAN MECHANIC:

The two side guys (HL only in 3-man I guess) hold the LS during a kick from scrimmage. Once the ball crosses the LS, the kick is now a punt, the side guys go downfield, and a 5 yard restraining zone by offside-relative-to-the-punter K players must be given to allow for a safe recovery of the ball. This is our No Yards foul.

Depending on the level, the R will either go with the kicking leg or the wide side (in some rare cases the shrot side). The side guy facing the R will help on bad snaps, so as to maintain the inside-outside coverage.

If the scrimmage kick doesn't cross the LS, the kick is not a punt, and no restraining zone exists.