fumble by a in end zone

[andy1033]

first and 10 for a from a"s 5 yl. A1 drops back into the end zone where he is tackled by the face mask and fumbles. the ball rolls out of bounds at the 3 yl.
this is case book play 10.3.1. Ruling is enforce from previous spot as this is a loose ball play.

I think 10.4.6 and 10.4.7 should apply to the defense or A after a change of possession. There was a problem when B either intercepted in the end zone and fumbled into the field of play or intercepted at in field of play and went into the end zone and fumbled into the field of play.

These plays already had a procedure for A. loose ball foul behind LOS.

10.4.6 makes it a touchback, enforce from 20 and 10.4.7 makes the result of the play so that fouls are enforced from the goal line.

Are we changing the rules for loose ball fouls by B if A fumbles in his own zone and the ball comes out into the field od play. If he fumbles in the end zone and ball does not come back out into the field of play we enforce it as we have always done.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by andy1033

...
If he fumbles in the end zone and ball does not come back out into the field of play we enforce it as we have always done.

It appears to me you are talking FED ball here. If so, how have you been enforcing this?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by andy1033

first and 10 for a from a"s 5 yl. A1 drops back into the end zone where he is tackled by the face mask and fumbles. the ball rolls out of bounds at the 3 yl.

CANADIAN RULING:

This is a 15-yard UR foul, with AFD, enforced from PLS.

Team A 1D/10 @ A-20.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by andy1033

first and 10 for a from a"s 5 yl. A1 drops back into the end zone where he is tackled by the face mask and fumbles. the ball rolls out of bounds at the 3 yl.
this is case book play 10.3.1. Ruling is enforce from previous spot as this is a loose ball play.

I think 10.4.6 and 10.4.7 should apply to the defense or A after a change of possession. There was a problem when B either intercepted in the end zone and fumbled into the field of play or intercepted at in field of play and went into the end zone and fumbled into the field of play.

These plays already had a procedure for A. loose ball foul behind LOS.

10.4.6 makes it a touchback, enforce from 20 and 10.4.7 makes the result of the play so that fouls are enforced from the goal line.

Are we changing the rules for loose ball fouls by B if A fumbles in his own zone and the ball comes out into the field od play. If he fumbles in the end zone and ball does not come back out into the field of play we enforce it as we have always done.

REPLY: 10-4-6 couldn't apply to this play since it's A's own force that put the ball in the end zone. 10-4-7 might first be thought to apply except that it (and 10-4-6, for that matter) mention the fumbling player's "related run" which according to 2-4-4 is specific to running plays. As you correctly noted this is a loose ball play, so 10-4-7 doesn't apply. Enforcement is from the previous spot. Steps are being taken to make it more clear that 10-4-6 and 10-4-7 apply to running plays only.

[andy1033]

Bob, I agree, then this does not apply to the offense in any situation. Only if there was a change of possession could this apply to A.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: 10-4-6 couldn't apply to this play since it's A's own force that put the ball in the end zone. 10-4-7 might first be thought to apply except that it (and 10-4-6, for that matter) mention the fumbling player's "related run" which according to 2-4-4 is specific to running plays. As you correctly noted this is a loose ball play, so 10-4-7 doesn't apply. Enforcement is from the previous spot. Steps are being taken to make it more clear that 10-4-6 and 10-4-7 apply to running plays only.

Bob, is Steve working on getting this clarified before the corrections come out? Did we not think of this, or how did this slide by us when we wrote the rule?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by MJT

Bob, is Steve working on getting this clarified before the corrections come out? Did we not think of this, or how did this slide by us when we wrote the rule?

REPLY: Not sure we're going to get it done in time for the corrections, but we are trying to revise the wording for the two known issues at least for next season:

1. This problem of clarifying that 10-4-6 and 10-4-7 only apply to running plays. It's implicit, but should probably be more explicitly stated.
2. The problem with 10-4-6 that limits it only to fouls "...by the opponents of the team in possession," when it should establish the basic spot for fouls by either team. That one was a flat-out goof on our part.

If you have any thoughts, please send along via e-mail.

[Theisey]

Bob, this is the play we've been talking about.
I didn't know the case book had an old play already, that being said we now have a case book play with no rule support after they changed the rule for what we thought was for a team-B situation.

This really needed to be corrected with an interpretration for 2007 and then a rule editiorial for 2008.

[andy1033]

Since 10.4.6 and 10.4.7 only apply to running plays. It can not apply to fumbles by a behind LOS by A.. Therefore case book play 10.3.1 is ok
I think as you suggested if you add this applies to running plays only, we will be all set..

[yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by andy1033

Are we changing the rules for loose ball fouls by B if A fumbles in his own zone and the ball comes out into the field od play. If he fumbles in the end zone and ball does not come back out into the field of play we enforce it as we have always done.

if the ball goes out of bounds in the end zone are we still going back to the previous spot to mark of the penalty or are we taking it from the goal line?

[andy1033]

Since this is a loose ball play. Go back to previous spot.