Free Kick Play

[kentref]

Originally Posted by golfdesigner

I'm gong to take a stab at this, the way I see it,
1] the muff by A in his own endzone is ignored; [first touching is only in field of play; field of play is area between the boundary lines and the goal lines, the EZ is not in field of play, so no first touching by A in EZ]
2] you worry about the muff by B, [I assume the muff by A in the EZ didn't cause the ball to return to the field of play as far as A's 20 so B's muff is prior to the free kick crossing the "free-kick line" where B muffed, wouldn't matter anyway];
3] A recovers following B's muff;

A's ball 1/10 at the 6

Not fun one to explain to B's coach, but then he probably wouldn't know definition of first touching anyway, right?

I tend to agree with this ruling on the play (that A get's the ball 1/10 at the 6) because there is no rules support for a "first touching in A's end zone." While it may not seem "fair" to Team B well, .... Perhaps the "first touching" language should include first touching in A's end zone?

To add a further wrinkle, let's assume Team A picked up the ball in their end zone and punted it again (while the kicker is still in the end zone). Then what do you have?

[Warrenkicker]

The first thought might be that you have an illegal kick. However this is a free kick and since K possessing a free kick causes the ball to become dead it would result in a safety. If you wanted to be difficult you might then flag them for kicking a ball after it becomes dead but you'd have to be there to call that one.

[Jim D]

Even though the touching in the end zone may not be "FIRST TOUCHING" per rule 2-12, K's contact with the ball in the endzone still meets the definition of "touching" in rule 2-43 and is done prior to R's touching the ball. So if K touches the ball before R, R's touching is ignored (6-1-5) and the ball would then belong to R at the 6.

I agree with Warren, once K picks up the ball in the endzone, the ball becomes dead and it would be a saftey per 6-1-5.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Jim D

...So if K touches the ball before R, R's touching is ignored (6-1-5) and the ball would then belong to R at the 6.

REPLY: Why would R's touching be ignored? R was neither blocked into the ball nor was the ball muffed or batted into him. He just went after a loose ball and muffed it. He can't be absolved of that touch.

[Jim D]

R's touching is "ignored" in that it has no effect on the play. K can only recover the ball before it goes beyond R's fee kick line if it is touched first by any receiver. Since K already had touched the ball in the endzone, R's touching is not first and therefore, doesn't have any consequences. K is not entitled to retain the ball.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Jim D

R's touching is "ignored" in that it has no effect on the play. K can only recover the ball before it goes beyond R's fee kick line if it is touched first by any receiver. Since K already had touched the ball in the endzone, R's touching is not first and therefore, doesn't have any consequences. K is not entitled to retain the ball.

REPLY: OK...now I see what you're saying. You're looking at the sentence that says, "The kickers may recover the ball before it goes beyond R's free kick line if it is touched first by any receiver." I read the use of the word "first" here to mean "prior to" rather "before any touching by K." So I don't necessarily agree, but I have no idea what we should do with this.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Jim D

R's touching is "ignored" in that it has no effect on the play. K can only recover the ball before it goes beyond R's fee kick line if it is touched first by any receiver. Since K already had touched the ball in the endzone, R's touching is not first and therefore, doesn't have any consequences. K is not entitled to retain the ball.

That has been my point all along. I guess I was not succinct enough. Better discussion about it on the NF board. http://www.nfhs.org/cgi-bin/ultimate...c;f=9;t=002487