Free Kick Play

[MJT]

Roamin, a better discussion on this question on the NF board. http://www.nfhs.org/cgi-bin/ultimate...c;f=9;t=002487

[golfdesigner]

I'm gong to take a stab at this, the way I see it,
1] the muff by A in his own endzone is ignored; [first touching is only in field of play; field of play is area between the boundary lines and the goal lines, the EZ is not in field of play, so no first touching by A in EZ]
2] you worry about the muff by B, [I assume the muff by A in the EZ didn't cause the ball to return to the field of play as far as A's 20 so B's muff is prior to the free kick crossing the "free-kick line" where B muffed, wouldn't matter anyway];
3] A recovers following B's muff;

A's ball 1/10 at the 6

Not fun one to explain to B's coach, but then he probably wouldn't know definition of first touching anyway, right?

[kentref]

Originally Posted by golfdesigner

I'm gong to take a stab at this, the way I see it,
1] the muff by A in his own endzone is ignored; [first touching is only in field of play; field of play is area between the boundary lines and the goal lines, the EZ is not in field of play, so no first touching by A in EZ]
2] you worry about the muff by B, [I assume the muff by A in the EZ didn't cause the ball to return to the field of play as far as A's 20 so B's muff is prior to the free kick crossing the "free-kick line" where B muffed, wouldn't matter anyway];
3] A recovers following B's muff;

A's ball 1/10 at the 6

Not fun one to explain to B's coach, but then he probably wouldn't know definition of first touching anyway, right?

I tend to agree with this ruling on the play (that A get's the ball 1/10 at the 6) because there is no rules support for a "first touching in A's end zone." While it may not seem "fair" to Team B well, .... Perhaps the "first touching" language should include first touching in A's end zone?

To add a further wrinkle, let's assume Team A picked up the ball in their end zone and punted it again (while the kicker is still in the end zone). Then what do you have?

[Warrenkicker]

The first thought might be that you have an illegal kick. However this is a free kick and since K possessing a free kick causes the ball to become dead it would result in a safety. If you wanted to be difficult you might then flag them for kicking a ball after it becomes dead but you'd have to be there to call that one.

[Jim D]

Even though the touching in the end zone may not be "FIRST TOUCHING" per rule 2-12, K's contact with the ball in the endzone still meets the definition of "touching" in rule 2-43 and is done prior to R's touching the ball. So if K touches the ball before R, R's touching is ignored (6-1-5) and the ball would then belong to R at the 6.

I agree with Warren, once K picks up the ball in the endzone, the ball becomes dead and it would be a saftey per 6-1-5.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Jim D

...So if K touches the ball before R, R's touching is ignored (6-1-5) and the ball would then belong to R at the 6.

REPLY: Why would R's touching be ignored? R was neither blocked into the ball nor was the ball muffed or batted into him. He just went after a loose ball and muffed it. He can't be absolved of that touch.

[Jim D]

R's touching is "ignored" in that it has no effect on the play. K can only recover the ball before it goes beyond R's fee kick line if it is touched first by any receiver. Since K already had touched the ball in the endzone, R's touching is not first and therefore, doesn't have any consequences. K is not entitled to retain the ball.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MJT

Roamin, a better discussion on this question on the NF board. http://www.nfhs.org/cgi-bin/ultimate...c;f=9;t=002487

Wow. It may hinge on the meaning of the word "first" in Fed 6-1-5. It could mean "previously" (K's ball) or it could mean absolutely first (R's ball).

Heh. The "practical" answer someone might give in rec.sport.officiating would be, "I heard a whistle while the ball was in the air...." ;-)

Robert