One more play

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: flag the batting, but technically, Team A has the choice of Touchback, so first and ten at the 20, or enforce the 15 yard batting penalty from the previous spot, though it isn't an auto first down. They'll accept the latter.

Am I missing something?

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Has anyone thought of the other time when an illegal bat could be a spot foul? First clue...it's probably something kooky.

I think I have 2 of them Bob.

1) The passing team batting a backwards pass forwards. The BS would be the PS and the foul would be behind the BS, thus a spot foul.

2) A player bats forward a ball in possession of one of his teammates. This would be a spot foul ONLY if it the IB occurred behind the NZ. If that was the case the fumble would result in this being a loose ball play with the BS being the PS and the foul was by A behind the BS and thus the spot of the foul would be the enforcement spot.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

NCAA: flag the batting, but technically, Team A has the choice of Touchback, so first and ten at the 20, or enforce the 15 yard batting penalty from the previous spot, though it isn't an auto first down. They'll accept the latter.

Am I missing something?

It is not an automatic 1st down in NF either, but I don't know the last time a 15 yard PS enforcement did not give a team a first down, although it could happen.

[Grey Hare]

In looking at the rule book, Rule 9-7-4 states ..A ball in player possession shal not be batted forward by a player of the team in possession. This would seem to describe a player in possession (the runner) batting the ball forward to a teammate. Like an illegal forward pass except it was an illegal bat. If this occurred beyond the neutral zone I would imagine this would be enforced as a spot foul. That would sure be a goofy looking play.

GH

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Grey Hare

In looking at the rule book, Rule 9-7-4 states ..A ball in player possession shal not be batted forward by a player of the team in possession. This would seem to describe a player in possession (the runner) batting the ball forward to a teammate. Like an illegal forward pass except it was an illegal bat. If this occurred beyond the neutral zone I would imagine this would be enforced as a spot foul. That would sure be a goofy looking play.

GH

That was what I was referring to in my number (2) above.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: I agree with all of the principles that Jim D. mentions. But still remember that once that snap is grounded, the bat by B is illegal and still must be dealt with

Big Ump...illegal batting is a spot foul in only two cases and this ain't one of 'em:
(1) when it is by the offense behind the basic spot, or
(2) anyone want to guess the other one?

When it's by R in a PSK situation and the bat is behind the PSK spot.

The original situation is neat because whether or not the ball has hit ground is important for TWO reasons: first, as pointed out, because no new force can be added to a pass in flight (and a long snap is a backward pass) - thus the result of the play might change. Second, the bat is illegal if the snap has hit the ground, but legal if it has not.

So there won't be any judgement regarding force involved on the original play. Either the snap never hit the ground and the play results in a safety with no fouls, or the snap was grounded and no one will care about the result of the play, because the illegal bat produces A 1/10 @ A35.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Jim D. and Roamin' Ump got the one I was thinking of. Like I said, "It is Probably Something Kooky."

[MJT]

Classic clue Bob!!! Classic!!

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Jim D. and Roamin' Ump got the one I was thinking of. Like I said, "It is Probably Something Kooky."

Bob'll be here all night folks, make sure you tip your servers!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by MJT

Fourth and 10 from K's 20. K85 muffs the snap. R75 dives for the ball at K's 6 yard line and bats it into and out the back of the EZ. What do you have?

CANADIAN RULING:

Last touched rule 1-10-5 gives Team R the ball, 1D/G at the K-6.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Jim D. and Roamin' Ump got the one I was thinking of. Like I said, "It is Probably Something Kooky."

From reading the US applications for the past few years, I know that PSK is Post Scrimmage Kick!