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Touchback,
K's ball at opposite 20. R caused the force necessary to put the ball out of play, your basic spot for the back of the endzone is the 20; since R's batt caused the new force to put the ball out of the endzone they are "punished" I had this exact play 2 years ago in Varsity game. I remember a long discussion on this forum about it but the consensus was the previously mentioned outcome. I don't have my books handy for references but if anyone has it please post... FYI our crew totally got it wrong, bad, and I have since left that crew. |
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I think it all depends if K85's muff of the snap was grounded or not. If the muff went straight up in the air and R75 batted it before it was grounded, it would not be considered a new force (2-13-3, 8-5-1) and the result would be a safety. If the muff was grounded first, then the result of the play would be a touchback, K's ball 1st and 10 from their 20.
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There are a couple of considerations here - first, as Fedex mentioned, is whether the ball was grounded. If not, then no new force is possible and it will be a saftey. Second, if the ball was grounded, a new force MAY be imparted from a muff. If the ball was rolling towards the endline before the muff by B, then I'd the force still was from the snap. If the ball was completely at rest, then maybe you have a new force. If it's bouncing around, it's a judgement call but remember who's mistake caused this situation. Don't reward A's screw up with a 1&10 at the 20 unless you are absolutely, positively sure that B imparted the force. Anything less than 100% sure, call it a saftey.
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REPLY: I agree with all of the principles that Jim D. mentions. But still remember that once that snap is grounded, the bat by B is illegal and still must be dealt with
Big Ump...illegal batting is a spot foul in only two cases and this ain't one of 'em: (1) when it is by the offense behind the basic spot, or (2) anyone want to guess the other one?
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Bob M. |
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Bob's comment is correct. Even though the play mentioned a "bat", I pictured it as a "muff" which makes this a good place to discuss the differences between the two.
If a ball is loose and B is trying to recover it, he is likely to muff the ball (touching it in an unsuccessful attempt to recover). He could also bat the ball (intentionally slapping or stricking the ball with the arm or hand) - most likely in an attempt to prevent A's recovery. Make sure you don't flag B's muff as a bat when B touches the ball intentionally in an attempt to secure possession. In this situation, you have to read the play and judge B's intention - was he trying to recover the ball himself (muff) when he struck it or was he trying to knock the ball away from A (bat). |
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Bob M. |
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My result is that K will accept the penalty for R's illegal bat and take the ball 1&10 @ the K-35. Clock on the snap. |
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The only thing I can come up with would be R illegally batting the ball behind the end of the kick (PSK spot). R catches the kick at R's 20 and fumbles the ball. To avoid K recovering at the 5, R bats the ball. The spot of the foul would be the enforcement spot.
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