Couple of questions

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by GFD406

Last night in our rules meeting, we came up with a couple that has everybody divided.

1. On a punt, K11 has both feet in R's EZ and downs the ball,(the ball never breaks the plane,) at the 1 foot line. Touchback or down at the 1 foot line?

Any other USAn rules than NFL's (or codes based on NFL's), the ball is dead when and where possessed by K11, foot position immaterial. NFL, touchback.

NFL used to have in its rule book a provision that said in case of doubt as to whether the ball was "in touch" (i.e. in goal) on such a play where K was touching the ground in the end zone, that it would be ruled a touchback. However, their officials weren't calling it that way; rather, they were invoking it even in cases where it was absolutely clear the ball was not in the end zone. Eventually NFL codified it as such.

NFL's rules concerning similar kick play situations are sui generis. For one thing, they're the only ones that rule on the goal line rather than the plane.

2. On a Kick, the ball touches the pylon. Out of bounds or a touchback?

If it were not a touchback, where would you spot the ball? Would you really spot it so that its hindmost point from K's perspective became its foremost point from R's perspective?

All of USAn, Canadian, and rugby football are in agreement on this: out of bounds in end zone/goal; in rugby, touch-in-goal. Only soccer's the odd one out, where the ball can hit the corner flag stick and stay in play.

Robert

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

All of USAn, Canadian, and rugby football are in agreement on this: out of bounds in end zone/goal; in rugby, touch-in-goal. Only soccer's the odd one out, where the ball can hit the corner flag stick and stay in play.

Of course, in soccer, boundary lines are treated differently - unless the ball completely crosses the touchline, it's still in play.

[wisref2]

Sorry for joining this discussion so late - been busy. These are easy:

1 - In NFHS, the location of the feet don't matter anymore. It is only the location of the ball. For reference (for more experienced officials who may disagree), this changed with the rule change on the kick becoming dead as soon as it crosses the plane of the goalline (the old rule read "touches anything in the end zone," and that wording was deleted, thus deleting the ruling concerning location of the player).

2 - If the ball touches a properly placed pylon, it is ALWAYS:
1) In the end zone; and
2) (if it matters) out of bounds

As the rule states, the pylon is "out of bounds in the end zone." The pylon is not confusing - it is your friend because it gives you answers immediately.

If a kick touches the pylon - it is a touchback. No what-ifs or buts.
If the ball in player control touches the pylon, the ball is in the end zone (usually a touchdown).
If a loose ball (not a kick) touches a pylon - it is BOTH in the end zone AND out of bounds. In most cases, that means its a touchback and a turnover (Offense doing in for a touchdown, fumbles from the field of play, into and out of the end zone).