Couple of questions

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by grantsrc

What he meant (I think) was that if the ball is parallel to the GL and not touching the GL then the ball is down there. But if you go to spot the ball and turn it perpendicular to the GL and it then intersects the GL, then you have to scoot it forward some so it isn't touching the GL.

Correct...thanks for correcting me. It was a moment of weakness and I'm out of practice. Good reason to stay on these boards to stay sharp!

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

....
I was suggesting a change such that the pylon be placed completely inbounds so that its outside edge corresponds to the inside edge of the sideline. That way there would be no confusion whatsoever that if the ball hit the pylon-whether loose or in player possession, then it had to cross the goal line inbounds. I can't think of any downsides to that other than the possibility of a player tripping over it.

Sorry for a late reply, I've been busy doing other things..

All we really need are some better words in the rule book, case book and a few good illustrations to describe what happens when a ball, loose or in player possession passes to the inside of the pylon, over the top of the pylon or to the outside of the pylon.

We have some words today, but they still seems to bring up questions and cause unnecessary confusion of what to rule.

Placement of a pylon fully inbounds would cause more trouble as I see it if a loose ball would to hit it and deflect into the EZ. We have some pylons up here that while made of rubber, would take 100 MPH winds to knock them over. So a loose ball striking it could easily be kept inbounds.

I just don't see why this is causing so much grief.

Say, have you been watching those two topics over on the NFHS forum? The one called "another goal line question" and "receiving a kick right at the line". Why is there so much confusion over the results of those plays? What are our books missing in definitions and rules that make these plays so difficult to rule on. I just don't see it, but from the responses, confusion reigns.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by Theisey

Say, have you been watching those two topics over on the NFHS forum? The one called "another goal line question" and "receiving a kick right at the line". Why is there so much confusion over the results of those plays? What are our books missing in definitions and rules that make these plays so difficult to rule on. I just don't see it, but from the responses, confusion reigns.

Well, I started the second one - doesn't seem to be too much confusion, other than when I first replied to a play in a different thread, I'd forgotten about the momentum exception.

As for the other thread, most of the argument is over what constitutes a catch. The definition is there, but it's really very difficult to pin down exactly what should and should not be a catch without a page-and-a-half of text. The NCAA has some very solid direction about what they want to be a catch, but it's not really in the book. The NFHS has no such top-down guidance, certainly not with the large number of film clips needed to really make it crystal clear.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Yeah, but #2 is OB in goal, right?

I think in touch actually.

[wisref2]

Sorry for joining this discussion so late - been busy. These are easy:

1 - In NFHS, the location of the feet don't matter anymore. It is only the location of the ball. For reference (for more experienced officials who may disagree), this changed with the rule change on the kick becoming dead as soon as it crosses the plane of the goalline (the old rule read "touches anything in the end zone," and that wording was deleted, thus deleting the ruling concerning location of the player).

2 - If the ball touches a properly placed pylon, it is ALWAYS:
1) In the end zone; and
2) (if it matters) out of bounds

As the rule states, the pylon is "out of bounds in the end zone." The pylon is not confusing - it is your friend because it gives you answers immediately.

If a kick touches the pylon - it is a touchback. No what-ifs or buts.
If the ball in player control touches the pylon, the ball is in the end zone (usually a touchdown).
If a loose ball (not a kick) touches a pylon - it is BOTH in the end zone AND out of bounds. In most cases, that means its a touchback and a turnover (Offense doing in for a touchdown, fumbles from the field of play, into and out of the end zone).