Replay reviews WF vs Lou

[JasonTX]

I don't recall the play in question but I'd like to point out that NCAA requires that the ball be firmly held or controled. 2-2-5-a

[Rick KY]

Then we have a difference of opinion. I believe that the runner, having the ball trapped against his body, held in place by his hand, was firm enough control of the ball, that this should not have been ruled a fumble. I understand your rules as they are described here, but I differ with the judgement of the covering official.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

Then we have a difference of opinion. I believe that the runner, having the ball trapped against his body, held in place by his hand, was firm enough control of the ball, that this should not have been ruled a fumble. I understand your rules as they are described here, but I differ with the judgement of the covering official.

No offense here, but it's not a difference of opinion ... it's a misunderstanding of the definition of control on your part.

Let's think of it this way, to clarify either your stance or your understanding (not sure which yet).

What if a receiver was fielding a pass and had exactly the control you see in the previously discussed play --- ball not yet in the hands, but trapped against his body, held in place by his hand, and then the ball went to the ground. Complete? Or incomplete (by your estimation)?

[Rick KY]

I can't say without seeing an example, but I would rule complete or incomplete depending on how long the ball was trapped against his body. The difference between your play and the play in this thread is that the runner for WF had possession before he was contacted and the ball started to move. In your play he is trying to gain possession.

I still have an issue with determining at what point possession is actually lost. I see possession, control of the ball and loose ball as three distuishable things.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

I can't say without seeing an example, but I would rule complete or incomplete depending on how long the ball was trapped against his body.

If a receiver has a ball in a particular position for which you would not rule control (thus - possession) for 1 second, then he still doesn't have control even if he holds it in that position for 10 seconds. Until he actually controls it, he doesn't. Period.

The difference between your play and the play in this thread is that the runner for WF had possession before he was contacted and the ball started to move. In your play he is trying to gain possession.

And there is the flaw in your logic that I tried to illustrate earlier. The difference that you note makes no difference at all. Whether he had possession before the moment in question or not is irrelevant to whether he has control of the ball (i.e. possession) at the moment in question. If you would rule a pass incomplete in a case like this, then he did not have possession at the critical moment, and thus, the play you are discussing is a fumble.

I still have an issue with determining at what point possession is actually lost. I see possession, control of the ball and loose ball as three distuishable things.

See what you want. The NCAA makes no such distinction. There is possession (which by definition includes control of the ball), and there is loose ball. No 3rd thing. No grey at all. Not sure if you're making up rules to fit your own preconceived notion or simply not aware of the rules in this case. I don't think Fed is different in this case either. There is no "middle ground" between possession and loose ball. By definition. By rule. Disagree if you will, but you are simply not correct here (if you still think you are - show some rule basis for it... I assure you that you will not find justification for your stance).