Replay reviews WF vs Lou

[schmitty1973]

I thought the ball was on it's way out before his knee hit the ground. Since it was ruled a fumble at first, there wasn't enough evidence to overrule it. But thats just my opinion.

[Rick KY]

I think the question that needs to be answered is "When does a ball become loose?" In my opinion, this ball was not loose, though the runner may have not had a good grasp of the ball, he did have it trapped against his body by one hand. Also, was the when in doubt rule applied here. I thought that when in doubt the runner is down, no fumble.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

I think the question that needs to be answered is "When does a ball become loose?" In my opinion, this ball was not loose, though the runner may have not had a good grasp of the ball, he did have it trapped against his body by one hand. Also, was the when in doubt rule applied here. I thought that when in doubt the runner is down, no fumble.

You keep saying, "He may not have had control of the ball, but it wasn't a fumble." You probably are not an official - if you were, you would know that a ball not controlled is a loose ball - whether this ball started from a point of possession (i.e. pre-fumble) or a point of non-possession (i.e. pre-catch or pre-recovery) is not material. If he doesn't, as you say, have control of the ball, then the ball is loose. Once the ball started involuntarily moving, it's loose.

Thus, a fumble in this particular case.

[Rick KY]

Mcrowder, I am an official of the NFHS variety. I did not say he did not have control. I said he did not have a good grasp, but he had it trapped between his hand and his body. I believe a player can possess a ball without having a good grasp. I was also asking about defining the precise moment when a ball comes loose. In the play being discussed, the player had the ball in his firm possession until he hit the pile. As he went down to his knee the ball appeared to slide from the tucked position up his torso, but he still had his hand trapping tehb all against his body. After his knee touched, the ball came completely out. So the question I have is when did the fumble occur. Since a fumble is a losse ball, and the ball was not loose until after the knee touched. how can this be ruled a fumble?

[JasonTX]

I don't recall the play in question but I'd like to point out that NCAA requires that the ball be firmly held or controled. 2-2-5-a

[Rick KY]

Then we have a difference of opinion. I believe that the runner, having the ball trapped against his body, held in place by his hand, was firm enough control of the ball, that this should not have been ruled a fumble. I understand your rules as they are described here, but I differ with the judgement of the covering official.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

Then we have a difference of opinion. I believe that the runner, having the ball trapped against his body, held in place by his hand, was firm enough control of the ball, that this should not have been ruled a fumble. I understand your rules as they are described here, but I differ with the judgement of the covering official.

No offense here, but it's not a difference of opinion ... it's a misunderstanding of the definition of control on your part.

Let's think of it this way, to clarify either your stance or your understanding (not sure which yet).

What if a receiver was fielding a pass and had exactly the control you see in the previously discussed play --- ball not yet in the hands, but trapped against his body, held in place by his hand, and then the ball went to the ground. Complete? Or incomplete (by your estimation)?