Announcers wanted U to signal TD

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ref18

I think the U should signal. When I work the U, and the play comes right up the middle, the U should be right on the goal line on the short drives in and should have the best view of whether or not the ball breaks the plane.

And when you work the U, how in the world are you seeing the ball and the knees at the same time?!?!! You are TOO close for this call. As said above, closer is NOT better ,and this is a perfect example of that. Signal to your partners that the ball is in the EZ - let them determine whether the knee is down or not. And meanwhile, continue officiating - do YOUR job, not theirs... if you do theirs, no one is doing yours.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

And when you work the U, how in the world are you seeing the ball and the knees at the same time?!?!! You are TOO close for this call. As said above, closer is NOT better, and this is a perfect example of that. Signal to your partners that the ball is in the EZ - let them determine whether the knee is down or not. And meanwhile, continue officiating - do YOUR job, not theirs... if you do theirs, no one is doing yours.

This is clearly a case of having to agree to disagree.

The Canadian mechanic is perfectly fine. Like 18 and 43 have outlined, it is our mechanic and we're trained with it from the get-go.

What this is, is an example of the differences between our games. The American field is 6,400 yds². The Canadian field is 9,750 yds². The Cdn field is over 52% bigger than the US field. Both the field of play and endzone are wider and longer/deeper in our game. It stands to reason that some mechanics will be different. One of them is the U calling TDs.

Frankly, you've got nothing but US training as your background and weapon for discussion. We have the training that is associated with the mechanic and rules for our game.

Trust me, we don't miss "things" the umpire normally observes.

(Then again, maybe our umpires are better than your umpires. )

[bisonlj]

If anyone was watching the Rutgers-WVU game on ESPN you saw the umpire signal touchdown on a 3rd and goal run from the 1 in the 3rd overtime to pull Rutgers within 2. It looked horrible because he was trying to run through the defensive players on his way to get the attention of the wing officials.

On a replay from the end zone it appeared the runner may have been down and then reached across, but it was impossible to tell because of the angle. The angle was similar to the U so I have no idea how he could have ruled the guy in. Rutgers failed to convert on the 2-point conversion so it had no impact on the outcome.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

If anyone was watching the Rutgers-WVU game on ESPN you saw the umpire signal touchdown on a 3rd and goal run from the 1 in the 3rd overtime to pull Rutgers within 2. It looked horrible because he was trying to run through the defensive players on his way to get the attention of the wing officials.

On a replay from the end zone it appeared the runner may have been down and then reached across, but it was impossible to tell because of the angle. The angle was similar to the U so I have no idea how he could have ruled the guy in. Rutgers failed to convert on the 2-point conversion so it had no impact on the outcome.

Just saw that myself - the U must have been DAMN sure that the ball was in before the runner's knee hit the ground.

[sj]

I'd have to see it again to be sure but from the angle from upstairs it looked like the runners knee wasn't down because he essentially was laying on top of other guys and was trying to churn his legs forward along with reaching the ball out. But yeah I saw the U signal and I thought holy smokes!!!

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by sj

I'd have to see it again to be sure but from the angle from upstairs it looked like the runners knee wasn't down because he essentially was laying on top of other guys and was trying to churn his legs forward along with reaching the ball out. But yeah I saw the U signal and I thought holy smokes!!!

It wasn't obvious that's for sure but that umpire was definitely positive. It did appear he was on top of a defender, but it almost looked like his elbow was on the ground before he moved the ball forward.

[grantsrc]

I saw that too. I was like, "what the heck is that umpire doing?"

[Forksref]

He set officials back about 5 years. First, the U never signals TD and he was very overweight and his flag looked like crap, dangling from his pocket. All the things we talk about to make officials better, he was exactly the opposite.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Forksref

He set officials back about 5 years. First, the U never signals TD and he was very overweight and his flag looked like crap, dangling from his pocket. All the things we talk about to make officials better, he was exactly the opposite.

Well in his defense, he's a D1 football official, so he must be doing something right.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Forksref

He set officials back about 5 years. First, the U never signals TD and he was very overweight and his flag looked like crap, dangling from his pocket. All the things we talk about to make officials better, he was exactly the opposite.

Except that he's there in a D-I game. Are you a D-I official? Will you be a D-I official in 5 years? There are large officials in the NFL. Bernie Kukar did at least one season with the flag hanging from his front pocket. And he runs weird. And he could have been better on the mic. Did he send NFL officials 5 years back?

Edit: correct the spelling of Bernie's first name.

[sloth]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Except that he's there in a D-I game. Are you a D-I official? Will you be a D-I official in 5 years? There are large officials in the NFL. Bermie Kukar did at least one season with the flag hanging from his front pocket. And he runs weird. And he could have been better on the mic. Did he send NFL officials 5 years back?

I can share the frustration. You study the proper mechanics, you keep yourself fit and you maintian a clean professional appearence. Then you have an official that has made it to the higherst level looking like a first year underclass official. Are you going to tell me that this old boys judgement is that good that the other aspects of his work are overlooked? Is he better thab the thousands of other official that have good judgement and the rest of the package as well?

The more I do this thing, the more I feel like success is more to do with right place/right time or who you know.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by sloth

The more I do this thing, the more I feel like success is more to do with right place/right time or who you know.

Very often it is! And that's life. I've found that fitting in is just as important, perhaps more, than the job you do on the field.

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Just saw that myself - the U must have been DAMN sure that the ball was in before the runner's knee hit the ground.

I think he was not only sure that it was in, but also that it would be tough for the wings to have seen what he saw.

It was a huge situation in a huge game with a lot at stake, and he had the play all the way, and he clearly knew what he saw and also knew that he had the best view on the field.

I thought the replay was conclusive by the way. It was a touchdown, and the U was in the right spot to see it.

Still very surprised that he called it.

[HossHumard]

With all due respect to my US brothers, just because the mechanic is Canadian doesn’t mean its stupid or wrong. In fact, it makes a ton of sense when you think about….if you bother to think about it.

Firstly, the Canadian mechanic dictates that the umpire be lined up just off the end’s butt wide side and make a step to the line as the play begins. The thought is that the majority of plays at that point are going to end up with penetration of the goal line somewhere between the hash marks, so the Umpire is either going to have the “magic moment” happening right in front of him, or he’ll just swivel around if the play if wider to the wide side.

In both cases, the U then has the play bracketed with his wingman for backup so either or both will have an excellent view of the break of the plane if it occurs. In addition, as previously mentioned, a back man slides into the U’s usual spot to cover the line play. If the U’s view is blocked, he doesn’t make the call, it’s that simple. And, in a mélange of bodies on the goal line, a view from someone who can actually move towards the pile for a diagonal look has to be better than a strict lateral view from 20 yards away; as for the “how can you see the knee hit the ground” comment, I would suggest in most cases, the knee NEVER hits the ground in a two tonne pile-up of players!

Finally, with regard to the post about “closer doesn’t mean better”…whaaaa? Isn’t positioning what it’s all about? How many times have you worked the bench side as a coach screams in your ear about a play in the middle of the field and you’ve turned to him and said, “Coach, we’re 30 yards away, the guys in the pit have a much better view of what’s going on!”.

Be open to another way fellas....you just never know.....

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by wwcfoa43

In Canadian four, five and seven man mechanics, with the ball inside the two yard line, the umpire positions himself close to the line of scrimmage and then steps forward on the line surge to be able to rule whether the ball crosses the line or not. In six man, we place two officials in this position. (Mind you, our fields are 65 yards wide, placing the outside wing man farther away.)

Do your wing officials not know how to close down?

If your umpire is watching the ball, who's watching line play?

Sounds like a very poor mechanic to me.

Originally Posted by ref18

I think the U should signal. When I work the U, and the play comes right up the middle, the U should be right on the goal line on the short drives in and should have the best view of whether or not the ball breaks the plane.

Ever seen an NFL umpire signal touchdown on such a play?

I rest my case.

Originally Posted by bisonlj

If anyone was watching the Rutgers-WVU game on ESPN you saw the umpire signal touchdown on a 3rd and goal run from the 1 in the 3rd overtime to pull Rutgers within 2. It looked horrible because he was trying to run through the defensive players on his way to get the attention of the wing officials.

On a replay from the end zone it appeared the runner may have been down and then reached across, but it was impossible to tell because of the angle. The angle was similar to the U so I have no idea how he could have ruled the guy in. Rutgers failed to convert on the 2-point conversion so it had no impact on the outcome.

I saw the same play. It looked terrible.