Kick Play

[Kirby]

This play was posted in an NCAA forum at another discussion board. What would the FED ruling be?

"On fourth down from the 50-yard line, the offense punts. The short punt lands at the 30-yard line where it is touched by a kicking team player. The loose ball is scooped up by a receiving team player at the 20-yard line. During his return, a teammate clips at the 26-yard line. The ball carrier is hit and fumbles. An opponent picks up the fumbled football at the 27-yard line and runs for a touchdown. During his run, a teammate blocks an opponent in the back at the 18-yard line. What is the result of this play?"

[BktBallRef]

Okay, I'll play since no one else will.

The first touching has no impact because R fouled after the touching. Because K got the ball with clean hands, they can decline R's foul and keep the ball. K's ball, 1st and 10 from the 28 yard line.

Anybody else see it differently?

[Theisey]

Nope, looks good to me.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Kirby

This play was posted in an NCAA forum at another discussion board. What would the FED ruling be?

"On fourth down from the 50-yard line, the offense punts. The short punt lands at the 30-yard line where it is touched by a kicking team player. The loose ball is scooped up by a receiving team player at the 20-yard line. During his return, a teammate clips at the 26-yard line. The ball carrier is hit and fumbles. An opponent picks up the fumbled football at the 27-yard line and runs for a touchdown. During his run, a teammate blocks an opponent in the back at the 18-yard line. What is the result of this play?"

Let's see...

R fouled after K's first touching, so R cannot take possession of the ball at the spot of first touching.

K would decline R's clipping to keep the ball.

Penalize K 10 yards for BIB from the R18.

K's ball, 1/10 at R28.

[Soonerump]

I was under the assumption that once the ball touched a player from the kicking team, the ball is dead where it was last touched at. Am I wrong?

[Theisey]

You'd be right if the ball was at rest (NF). I think we all assumed (I know I did) that the ball was still moving around.

[ChickenOfNC]

Let me ask a question since I don't have my books with me...

I understand that the first touching is ignored when there is a foul by R, but is that still the case when R's foul is declined?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by ChickenOfNC

Let me ask a question since I don't have my books with me...

I understand that the first touching is ignored when there is a foul by R, but is that still the case when R's foul is declined?

Yes, R still loses the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching if:

1. R commits a foul during the down, or
2. The penalty for any foul is accepted during the down.

6-2-5

[ChickenOfNC]

Appreciate it

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Yes, R still loses the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching if:

1. R commits a foul during the down, or
2. The penalty for any foul is accepted during the down.

6-2-5

I believe your number 1 should say, "R commits a foul after touching a kick that was first touched by K." If R committed a foul BEFORE they touched a kick that was first touched by K, and the penalty for that foul was declined, R would still have the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Kirby

I believe your number 1 should say, "R commits a foul after touching a kick that was first touched by K." If R committed a foul BEFORE they touched a kick that was first touched by K, and the penalty for that foul was declined, R would still have the right to take the ball at the spot of first touching.

You are correct - the all-important word in the rule, I believe, is "thereafter," when referring to the events of R touching the kick and foul commission by R.

[bossman72]

can anybody point me to the rule which explains penalty enforcement when there are changes of posession?

better yet, are there any resources on the net that "teach" you this concept such as a power point or something else?

[MJT]

Originally Posted by bossman72

can anybody point me to the rule which explains penalty enforcement when there are changes of posession?

better yet, are there any resources on the net that "teach" you this concept such as a power point or something else?

The Redding Study Guide does a much better job of doing that than the rule book. In the rule book, it is covered by rule 10-2, which says...
SECTION 2 DOUBLE AND MULTIPLE FOULS
ART. 1 . . . It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which:

a. There is no change of team possession, unless all fouls committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls.
b. There is a change of team possession, and the team in possession at the end of the down fouls prior to final change of possession unless all fouls committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls.
c. There is a change of possession and the team in final possession accepts the penalty for its opponent's foul.

In (a), (b) or (c), the penalties cancel and the down is replayed.

ART. 2 . . . If each team fouls during a down in which there is a change of team possession and the play does not have a 2-16-2g (post-scrimmage kick) foul, the team last gaining possession may retain the ball, provided its foul is not prior to the final change of possession and it declined the penalty for its opponent's foul, other than a nonplayer or unsportsmanlike foul. In this case, the team not last in possession has no penalty options. If each team fouls during a down in which there is a change of possession and all R fouls are after the kick has been made, then R may retain the ball, provided R declines the penalty for K's foul(s), other than a nonplayer or unsportsmanlike foul. In this case, the team that was not last in possession has no penalty options and the foul against R will be enforced.

[bossman72]

is the redding study guide available online?

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by bossman72

is the redding study guide available online?

You can buy it for $15.00 here:

http://www.doublesdistributors.com/order.htm

The NCAA is listed under item 1 and NFHS is listed under item 2...be sure to get the right code. I bought my study guide from this distributor and didn't have any problems.