Had an IW tonight

[BktBallRef]

Yes, but you can't always have patience when there are 10 players in a pile, scrapping for the ball.

My IW came in a 22-22 varsity game 8 years ago, with just over 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

[JasonTX]

When I see a pile up, the first thing I do is stuff my whistle in my pocket. There is no hurry to blow a whistle on a pile up. I have heard of way too many cases such as the play in this post. See the ball is the best advice one can get. Anyhow, I know the IW must be tough, but you now have an addition to your officiating "war" stories.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

When I see a pile up, the first thing I do is stuff my whistle in my pocket. There is no hurry to blow a whistle on a pile up. I have heard of way too many cases such as the play in this post. See the ball is the best advice one can get. Anyhow, I know the IW must be tough, but you now have an addition to your officiating "war" stories.

Amen, Jason.

[Texas Aggie]

I agree with MC and Jason. Although you didn't see the ball come free, when I see the ball loose, unless I blow it dead there, I drop the whistle out of my mouth. I'll deal with late hit calls or no calls later, if they come up.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Yes, but you can't always have patience when there are 10 players in a pile, scrapping for the ball.

I disagree 100%. Why would there be any need for impatience with your whistle when there are 10 players in a pile? Even to those who subscribe to the "Whistle nearly every play" camp would likely agree that this would be the ideal (perhaps lone) situation where you would NOT blow a whistle. A whistle CAN NOT help the situation, and is more likely to be an IW in this sitch than in most other situations.

[BktBallRef]

You misunderstand my point. What I'm saying is that with 10 bodies piled on top of each other, you can't nowwhere the ball is. You can't wait until the pile is completely uncovered before you blow the whistle. Wha are you gonna do, wait 10 seconds and then suddenly the ball pops out? I don't think so. Bad things happen in piles. If there's a pile, I'll wait 3 or 4 seconds but then I'm killing it and getting in there. If it hasn't popped out by then, it's in there.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You misunderstand my point. What I'm saying is that with 10 bodies piled on top of each other, you can't nowwhere the ball is. You can't wait until the pile is completely uncovered before you blow the whistle. Wha are you gonna do, wait 10 seconds and then suddenly the ball pops out? I don't think so. Bad things happen in piles. If there's a pile, I'll wait 3 or 4 seconds but then I'm killing it and getting in there.

No, we completely understand your point, and disagree with it. What you are suggesting is REALLY bad mechanics.

Let me ask you this - why do you feel the need to blow the play dead on a play like this? You don't need to "kill it." If the ball's in the pile, the play is dead, regardless of your whistle or lack of one. The only thing I would suggest is that in instances where timing is critical (near the end of a half), check the clock at the moment you THINK the play is over, before digging for bodies, just in case it turns out that the clock should have stopped at that moment, and you just didn't know it yet.

You are missing OUR point. DON'T blow your whistle AT ALL on a pileup. It's unnecessary, and it's EXACTLY the thing that leads to the IW in the OP.

Let me ask you further ... what would YOU do if you blew your whistle at 4 seconds, and then at 10 seconds, suddenly the ball pops out? Congrats - you have an IW.

No ball, no whistle. Period.

If it hasn't popped out by then, it's in there

Does the existence of an unpossessed ball in a pileup necessarily mean the ball is dead 100% of the time? Think about it. You may be right that it's "in there" - but it may not yet be dead.

[shave-tail]

The play stops the play not the whistle. If you don't see the ball in a scrum, drop your whistle, run in and use your voice letting the players know you are there and to start rolling off. The players will stop, no IW and no one will complain about a late or even no whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Let me ask you further ... what would YOU do if you blew your whistle at 4 seconds, and then at 10 seconds, suddenly the ball pops out? Congrats - you have an IW.

No, I don't. As someone already said, the whistle seldom kills the play, it's already dead.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[Smiley]

But the key is to know its dead before you blow the whistle. I have had several plays that have ended without a whistle ever being blown.

[BktBallRef]

No argument there, Smiley.

[RIRef]

My first year reffing Pop Warner, I had not one but 2.

Backwards pass, I called incomplete. Crew let me know about it


later in the 3rd quater, had another backwards pass.

Yup you guessed it ...

Good thing is, I will NEVER ever do it again

[fattuna2]

Last night, in a 3 play sequence, our white hat, on an incomplete pass into the endzone with less than a second left, put the ball in play for an untimed down (B was rather non-plussed, the rest of our crew was shall we say horrified/mystified). On the ensuing field goal attempt, the kick was blocked into the awating hands of a corner back about 15 yards from the LOS with about 98 yards of green baby. Except for one thing. Our WH had blown his whistle immediately upon the block being kicked. B knew that an IW meant another crack at if for A, but he really wasn't digging on it if you know what I mean. The second field goal attempt was blocked also. On two occasions last night, I explained to him that we were enforcing the holding calls our field judge has been repeatedly throwing 10-15 yards ahead of the play from the suceeding spot not the flag. And you guys think you've had tough nights. .