Faceguarding - What is this?

[AZ Line Judge]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

It looked like pretty darned good defense and an underthrown ball, to me.

What exactly was the flag for? DPI? They wuz robbed!

Hard to say for sure, but I'm not sure it was flagged. It looked like he threw his bean bag.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by AZ Line Judge

Hard to say for sure, but I'm not sure it was flagged. It looked like he threw his bean bag.

Well, considering there's no reason in the world to bag an INT (excepting a momentum play) I never considered it. Looked like a flag in slow-mo to me.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: No way this should ever be called pass interference. Since the B appeared to throw whatever it was straight up into the air, I can't imagine it was a bean bag. I would assume he was flagging something.

[tnzebra]

Before we make judgement...... did we see the whole play? I'm not sure I saw enough to definately say there was no DPI. It looks as though to me that the second defender could have been clearing the receiver away from the catch. In my opinion we probably should not have had a penalty but I'm not sure I have seen enough to be 100% sure. Just my opinion......

[ZMan]

Based on what I see in the video I would not call this pass interference. The receiver is still running backwards when the defender caught the ball. Now, there may have been intereference before the camera brought the 3 players into view but based on what I can see on camera, I don't think it's face guarding.

[MJT]

I say no. Looking at it by stepping thru pause and play it looks as if the defender turns to fiind the ball at the same time he puts his hand up in the air. That would not be faceguarding.

[MIcoach]

the official was throwing the flag.

i am suspecting that it is a DPI, but you dont see either the defender or the rec. until the camera turns to them. if it was from prior contact, the official waited to long to throw the flag, IMO, but looking as how the defender had his hand on the rec, this would constitute a DPI penalty if i understand it correctly. there is no way that faceguarding should be called, but it is a judgement call, so hard to say what was going thru the officials mind if he did flag it for faceguarding.

another question comes to mind though. i have heard that there is techniqually no PI until the ball leaves the throwers hand. is this correct? and if it is, who's responsibility is it to see whether the ball has left yet? i would find it hard as a backjudge to watch both the pass and the contact downfield if it was mine.

[JasonTX]

I was lurking around where this play was originally posted. According to the person posting the play at that site, he stated that the foul was reported as faceguarding.

[jontheref]

I like the no-call on this better than I like the flag. If we are playing advantage - disadvantage (sorry basketball guys) then since the ball is intercepted in front of R than where is the disadvantage. In addition, as many have stated, there is a pretty good effort at defense....Defended goes up and the intercepter cuts in front.

Now what happens when the penalty is reported. We basically have a foul-- or alleged foul-- on a player who is not agreived. Over simplifying, just as we dont call a hold away from the ball...should we call a foul on a player one level removed from the action. If the ball goes through, I can probably make a better case for FGing....but even then its a pretty good defensive action.

[grantsrc]

Regardless of seeing the whole play and given the fact that this thread is titled "faceguarding," I would say the flag is for DPI faceguarding. This shouldn't be called folks. Plus, look at the timing of the flag, it comes out after the ball has been intercepted so there really is no plausable reason the flag came out that late. Well I guess it could be OPI and the B was waiting to see if the ball crossed the LOS, but again, the thread's title gives it away.

BTW- MJT, congrats! 1001 posts. That's quite the accomplishment.

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by MIcoach

another question comes to mind though. i have heard that there is techniqually no PI until the ball leaves the throwers hand. is this correct? and if it is, who's responsibility is it to see whether the ball has left yet? i would find it hard as a backjudge to watch both the pass and the contact downfield if it was mine.

For the defense, yes. Pass interference restrictions begin with the pass.

[FootballRef05]

[QUOTE=MIcoach]the official was throwing the flag.

the official waited to long to throw the flag, IMO,

Where in the rule book or the manual do you see anything where the official has to throw his flag immediately? There is no reason we have to throw a flag until we are sure of what we have. The term late flag by the "talking heads" on TV every week leads people to believe that an official is unsure of what he is doing rather than taking the time to process what he sees and making the correct call. Of course we want to make calls in a timely fashion, however I don't think is is fair to say he waited to long to call a foul.

[BigFarns]

[QUOTE=FootballRef05]

Originally Posted by MIcoach

the official was throwing the flag.

the official waited to long to throw the flag, IMO,

Where in the rule book or the manual do you see anything where the official has to throw his flag immediately? There is no reason we have to throw a flag until we are sure of what we have. The term late flag by the "talking heads" on TV every week leads people to believe that an official is unsure of what he is doing rather than taking the time to process what he sees and making the correct call. Of course we want to make calls in a timely fashion, however I don't think is is fair to say he waited to long to call a foul.

I was just about to mention this. People thinking the flag should come out simultaneously with the foul occuring are being unreasonable.
I have been hampered lately by this logic when I waited to throw the flag on a play because I was literally replaying it in my head. I dropped the flag and everyone lost their mind. After this I was advised that I can't make a call more than a second after it's happen. That I should see most calls coming and rule immediately. Well that was about a month or so ago and in that time I'd say I've had 3 of the worst games I've ever done. Much, much worse than even my first JV game. Why? Cause I've called almost nothing and the couple I have called I seriously can not verify in my mind that they happen cause I was anticipating. Basically I got myself all screwed up. So now it's back to how I used to do it. See it, replay it if it's "funny looking" and then rule. Yeah I'll get a couple of those "hey you only ruled after you saw us intercept, your cheating" type of arguments but I'll be able to go home knowing I've done my job as well as I could.

Oh, sorry...didn't mean to hijack the thread....back to the original thread. I don't see any faceguarding either which by the title of the thread is what was called here. If they are calling something that happen earlier in the play then obviously we can't see it but it's definately not a faceguard.

[MIcoach]

Originally Posted by FootballRef05

Where in the rule book or the manual do you see anything where the official has to throw his flag immediately? There is no reason we have to throw a flag until we are sure of what we have. The term late flag by the "talking heads" on TV every week leads people to believe that an official is unsure of what he is doing rather than taking the time to process what he sees and making the correct call. Of course we want to make calls in a timely fashion, however I don't think is is fair to say he waited to long to call a foul.

not being a football official, i do not know if there is a time in which you are supposed to throw a flag. but to me, the time that was waited before pulling the flag was to long. i understand you have to replay everything in your mind, but how long is to long? to me, if you see a foul, there really is no replaying it in your mind, it is a foul and the flag should be thrown. if you are not sure if there is a foul then, yes think it through, but it shouldnt take as long as it took that official to throw the flag. again, this is just my opinion as a coach/spectator/parent. maybe next year if i sign up to become an official i will have a different opinion of this, but this is my opinion right now.