Momentum question

[Rick KY]

Fedex, that sounds very logical. I was not arguing to apply momentum exception or not, merely questioning what appears to me to be a gap in the rules.

If you have a steal of the ball there is obviously a change of possession, but the ball was never loose according to the original play description. That was the point of the post I think.

Without a loose ball how can the momentum execption apply?

What rule are you applying to place the ball at the B2?

[Opie]

The momentum exception doesn't say anything about the ball being loose, only that a defensive player intercepts or recovers an opponent's fumble or backward pass.
The definition of a fumble is "any loss of player possession other than by handing, passing, or a legal kick."
Since this meets the definition of a fumble, I also believe the momentum exception applies because technically the B player has gained possession of a fumble.
Bag it and apply the exception.
2-18 and 8-5-2.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Opie

The momentum exception doesn't say anything about the ball being loose, only that a defensive player intercepts or recovers an opponent's fumble or backward pass.
The definition of a fumble is "any loss of player possession other than by handing, passing, or a legal kick."
Since this meets the definition of a fumble, I also believe the momentum exception applies because technically the B player has gained possession of a fumble.
Bag it and apply the exception.
2-18 and 8-5-2.

I guess I said what I said poorly, so I'll try again.

Either you must rule the loss of possession a fumble (loss of player possession other than by handing, passing or a legal kick), and give the momentum exception, or you must rule simultaneous possession, and have no recovery by the defense. I don't see any possibility of there being both a COP on this play, and having the momentum exception not apply. I can see no way to rule a safety.

[Rick KY]

I don't think you can have simultaneous possession. You can have a simultaneous catch or recovery though.

[Rick KY]

You cannot catch or recover a ball in another player's possession, so the momentum rule must apply only to a loose ball.

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

You cannot catch or recover a ball in another player's possession, so the momentum rule must apply only to a loose ball.

I understand your point Rick, and I think this is somewhat of a grey area because of the way the exception is worded. I remember a couple years ago when they changed the momentum to include fumbles as well as kicks and interceptions. I'm guessing this scenario didn't come into their minds when updating the rule.
I do believe the spirit of this rule does lean toward the exception applying here. I believe this rule is in place to prevent awarding a safety when a good defensive play has been made, as is the case here. The rule may not be worded as well as we would like, but we should understand the reasons behind the rules as well because it helps us be better officials.
Good discussion.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

You cannot catch or recover a ball in another player's possession, so the momentum rule must apply only to a loose ball.

Are you agreeing with me or arguing with me?

If arguing, explain to me how you are justifying a safety on this play ... what EXACTLY happens (even if only for a microsecond) to both give B the ball and disallow the momentum exception?

[Smiley]

What happens is B gains possession of the ball and runs it into the endzone. Because there was no catch or recovery involved, the momentum exception technically doesn't apply. Same as if the ball was handed to him and he ran into the endzone with it.

[andy1033]

B took the ball away from a at the 2 yard line. this is considered a fumble. bean bag spot. Momentum carried him into end zone. put ball into play at the 2 year line..