Sportmanship--What can officials do?

[JugglingReferee]

Had a game with a team losing 0-40 mid way thru the 4th. Losing team ends up marching down to B's 3 yard line on 3rd down.

Then they fumble.

Then A player is kinda going for the ball, team B player kinda knocks him outta the way to get the ball. I decide to flag for interference on a loose ball. Penalty: A 1D @ PF. It was a bit of a stretch of a call, and I knew it.

They ended up scoring. Winning team scored one more time. Final score: 47-6. No harm done, team A was happy to score a TD.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Had a game with a team losing 0-40 mid way thru the 4th. Losing team ends up marching down to B's 3 yard line on 3rd down.

Then they fumble.

Then A player is kinda going for the ball, team B player kinda knocks him outta the way to get the ball. I decide to flag for interference on a loose ball. Penalty: A 1D @ PF. It was a bit of a stretch of a call, and I knew it.

They ended up scoring. Winning team scored one more time. Final score: 47-6. No harm done, team A was happy to score a TD.

As said earlier we can't stretch the rules and impose on our integrality. As hard as it may seem we just have to stand by and watch this travesty of a game and a coach that has no business working with kids. It is our job to enforce sportsmanship within the framework of the rules given to us by the NFHS and our own state. This has generated a lot a discussion around the country and hopefully the next coach that decides to do something like this thinks twice.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

As said earlier we can't stretch the rules and impose on our integrality. As hard as it may seem we just have to stand by and watch this travesty of a game and a coach that has no business working with kids. It is our job to enforce sportsmanship within the framework of the rules given to us by the NFHS and our own state. This has generated a lot a discussion around the country and hopefully the next coach that decides to do something like this thinks twice.

It seems like you disagree.

Are you telling me that you call a hold the same for 19 year old vs. 10 year olds? I didn't think so. I merely decided that in this game, that loose ball contact is a foul. Another game it likely won't be. If the loosing team came back to score 42 unanswered points in less than 6 minutes, then my call that I could have flagged/could have not flagged is the least of the other team's worries.

I don't condone making up fouls, but geesh mister Goodwill, where's your goodwill?

Are you saying running up the score is a travesty? I don't agree with your statement that the coach does not having any business working with kids. What if the disparity between the teams is such that even with the winning team having their 2nd/3rd stringers in, they still score points. Do you want to tell the 3rd stringers to not try their hardest to score points? Don't we afford these players the chance to learn, expand their skill, and try their hardest?

[OverAndBack]

“Records are sometimes worth pursuing, sportsmanship be damned.”

Did the guy really say that?

Sportsmanship should never, never, never, never never be damned. Ever. It was true with the "Florida Flop" of 1971 and it's true today.

Some guys need to be b!tchslapped.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

“Records are sometimes worth pursuing, sportsmanship be damned.”

Did the guy really say that?

Sportsmanship should never, never, never, never never be damned. Ever. It was true with the "Florida Flop" of 1971 and it's true today.

Some guys need to be b!tchslapped.

More than some!

[OverAndBack]

I mean, don't get me wrong....I don't think there's anything we could actually do as officials in the context of the game itself. In our state, the clock would already be running continuously, but I can't think of anything else we could do.

I have had partners actually tell me "see if we can't get a holding penalty in here against this team soon," but I refused. I'm not going to go there. If I see one, I'll flag it, but I'm not going to make one up.

Being impartial means being impartial, even if it burns sometime.

But I'd hold that coach in much lower regard in the future, that's for sure. And if I could avoid doing his games, I would. I'm not sure that's a realistic option in that part of the country, where there may not be a whole lot of officials in and around those small towns (just a guess on my part - I have no idea).

[voiceoflg]

What is the definition of an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty? Could you flag something like not returning a punt just to rack up yards as "unsportsmanlike?" Now that I think about it, you probably can't get into "intent," but if there is unsportsmanlike conduct on the field in this instance, there would be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for it.

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. I would have loved to see the running back and head coach ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct. But that would probably open up a can of worms unnecessarily.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

What is the definition of an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty? Could you flag something like not returning a punt just to rack up yards as "unsportsmanlike?" Now that I think about it, you probably can't get into "intent," but if there is unsportsmanlike conduct on the field in this instance, there would be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for it.

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. I would have loved to see the running back and head coach ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct. But that would probably open up a can of worms unnecessarily.

2 problems. The RB was not exhibiting UC - so it would not be appropriate to penalize him. Also - penalizing them for UC for not returning a punt would only HELP their cause - remember, they were trying to make the field as long as possible for this kid.

Surprised the OTHER coach didn't take matters into his own hands. Why punt - ever? Why limit themselves to 11 on the field? Incur the 15 yard penalty for IP if necessary (perhaps explaining what you're doing so you don't get the normal DB IS instead). Heck, put 15 guys out there - you stop the kid's run if they decline the penalty, and you shorten the field if they take it, and this kid doesn't get his yards. I don't see this as any less sportsmanlike than the offending team letting punts roll. Intentionally false start or DOG when on offense, running the clock (surely in THIS case the R wouldn't invoke the "clock at the snap" thing).

I don't know ... just thinking out loud.

[jontheref]

In Connecticut we have the so called 50 point rule but that has done little to keep scores down. We do not have a Mercy Rule...however we as R's have been known to run the clock when we shouldn't which basically means the "old timing rules". But, no we don't get together and try to figure out what fouls we should call. The idea is survival...to get everyone out healthy and the like. There is nothing good that is going to happen the longer we are on the field.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Surprised the OTHER coach didn't take matters into his own hands. Why punt - ever? Why limit themselves to 11 on the field? Incur the 15 yard penalty for IP if necessary (perhaps explaining what you're doing so you don't get the normal DB IS instead). Heck, put 15 guys out there - you stop the kid's run if they decline the penalty, and you shorten the field if they take it, and this kid doesn't get his yards. I don't see this as any less sportsmanlike than the offending team letting punts roll. Intentionally false start or DOG when on offense, running the clock (surely in THIS case the R wouldn't invoke the "clock at the snap" thing).

I don't know ... just thinking out loud.

Game becomes a travesty, then. You might as well play APBA.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

And if I could avoid doing his games, I would. I'm not sure that's a realistic option in that part of the country, where there may not be a whole lot of officials in and around those small towns (just a guess on my part - I have no idea).

I wonder if that's true. In fact, if officials refused to work his games, and there was a limited supply of officials ...

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

“Records are sometimes worth pursuing, sportsmanship be damned.”

Did the guy really say that?

Sportsmanship should never, never, never, never never be damned. Ever. It was true with the "Florida Flop" of 1971 and it's true today.

Some guys need to be b!tchslapped.

Yes he did say that when asked if all the calls and emails and grief he has taken over all this was worth it.

[HawkeyeCubP]

[QUOTE=JugglingReferee]Then A player is kinda going for the ball, team B player kinda knocks him outta the way to get the ball. I decide to flag for interference on a loose ball. Penalty: A 1D @ PF. It was a bit of a stretch of a call, and I knew it.QUOTE]

A bit of a stretch? The only kind of interference I know of can only be called during a legal forward pass, which no fumble could ever meet the definition of. How was this explained to the coach? And was it received well?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

A bit of a stretch? The only kind of interference I know of can only be called during a legal forward pass, which no fumble could ever meet the definition of. How was this explained to the coach? And was it received well?

Maybe you didn't know that I'm Canadian. We have a rule that says when the ball is loose, playing an opponent and not the ball is a loose ball interference foul if the foul is against an opponent directly making a play to recover the ball. The penalty it AFD at PF for the non-offending team.

It did not have to be explained to the coach, and he received it well.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Maybe you didn't know that I'm Canadian. We have a rule that says when the ball is loose, playing an opponent and not the ball is a loose ball interference foul if the foul is against an opponent directly making a play to recover the ball. The penalty it AFD at PF for the non-offending team.

It did not have to be explained to the coach, and he received it well.

That makes sense then.