Two Motion Questions

[Patsfan2431]

Federation Rules:

#1 A slot back goes in motion across the formation. The player is parrell to the line and does not move forward or backward at any time during the motion. Halfway through the motion, the player hesitates in his motion moving parrell (almost stoping, then starting again). As the player continues to move across the formation, the snap occurs. What do we have? Is it legal for the player "Pause" in his motion across the formation? The white hat in this game noted illegal motion and had a live ball foul, but i am not so sure.

#2 The offense is in a two back set with both players in a three point stance. Immediately before the snap, one back picks up his hand and moves forward. Though a back can go in motion, it seems the back was simulating the start of a play. Is this a live/dead ball foul in this sitaution? (Illegal Motion or False Start?) Since the snap was so close to the back moving forward, i killed the play and ruled a false start.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Patsfan2431

Federation Rules:

#1 A slot back goes in motion across the formation. The player is parrell to the line and does not move forward or backward at any time during the motion. Halfway through the motion, the player hesitates in his motion moving parrell (almost stoping, then starting again). As the player continues to move across the formation, the snap occurs. What do we have? Is it legal for the player "Pause" in his motion across the formation? The white hat in this game noted illegal motion and had a live ball foul, but i am not so sure.

#2 The offense is in a two back set with both players in a three point stance. Immediately before the snap, one back picks up his hand and moves forward. Though a back can go in motion, it seems the back was simulating the start of a play. Is this a live/dead ball foul in this sitaution? (Illegal Motion or False Start?) Since the snap was so close to the back moving forward, i killed the play and ruled a false start.

1 - I can't imagine what made this a foul, unless someone else moved during his pause.
2 - Probably false start. This gets let go and flagged as IM far too often. You said the key phrase - simulated the start of a play. Motion forward by a back needs to be very fluid and non-sudden to not be ruled a false start.

[Patsfan2431]

#1 What if the back fully stopped his motion, then continued. I guess my underlying question here is, what constitutues a foul by a back in motion other than moving forward at the snap or if another player was moving as well?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Patsfan2431

#1 What if the back fully stopped his motion, then continued. I guess my underlying question here is, what constitutues a foul by a back in motion other than moving forward at the snap or if another player was moving as well?

Nothing.....

[FootballRef05]

If he stops wouldn't he be assuming a new position as a back? If he started moving again without resetting that would be an Ill. shift, correct? this is similar to a question that was on the Part 2 Fed exam this year.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by FootballRef05

If he stops wouldn't he be assuming a new position as a back? If he started moving again without resetting that would be an Ill. shift, correct? this is similar to a question that was on the Part 2 Fed exam this year.

OK, I admit I'm an NCAA guy and not a FED guy ... but you've lost me here.

Only thing I can think of that makes ANY sense out of what you just said would be a player initially on the line stepping back must establish himself as a back by resetting before moving in motion. The guy in the OP was ALREADY a back, and would not need to reset.

(And even if there is a bizarre FED rule I'm unaware of, which is completely possible, that would require a second at the set position if he stopped ... in the OP, the player DIDN'T stop (at least according to O Poster).

[FootballRef05]

OK, here is the question

After Team A has been set for at least one second, it is a foul if back A1 moves to a new backfiekd position abd sets for less then one second before the snap. (Answer is True)

This is what I was thinking of when I asked the question. If he goes in motion and stops wouldn't that be considered a new backfield position? And if he went in motion again before setting for 1 second it would be a foul?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I would call this but by rule wouldit be a foul?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by FootballRef05

OK, here is the question

After Team A has been set for at least one second, it is a foul if back A1 moves to a new backfiekd position abd sets for less then one second before the snap. (Answer is True)

This is what I was thinking of when I asked the question. If he goes in motion and stops wouldn't that be considered a new backfield position? And if he went in motion again before setting for 1 second it would be a foul?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I would call this but by rule wouldit be a foul?

REPLY: technically yes...it would be a foul (mcrowder...Fed's definition of "shift" involves movement to a new position by one or more players--different from NCAA). But, if you had the time to determine that he had indeed paused/stopped, wouldn't you think that's probably enough to allow him to go back in motion.

[FootballRef05]

As always, well put Bob.

[Patsfan2431]

In reality, the back went in motion, did a sort of a pause/studder step and then continued until the snap. He was positioned as a back in the original formation so he didn't need to pause for the required second to change his position. He def didn't simulate a snap. Seemed like he had a momentary brain fart with regard to his assignment. It looked a little weird, but i had nothing.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Patsfan2431

In reality, the back went in motion, did a sort of a pause/studder step and then continued until the snap. He was positioned as a back in the original formation so he didn't need to pause for the required second to change his position. He def didn't simulate a snap. Seemed like he had a momentary brain fart with regard to his assignment. It looked a little weird, but i had nothing.

REPLY: I agree with your no-call based upon your clarification. I guess I was answering your hypothetical question above: "What if the back fully stopped his motion?"

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

1 - I can't imagine what made this a foul, unless someone else moved during his pause.
2 - Probably false start. This gets let go and flagged as IM far too often. You said the key phrase - simulated the start of a play. Motion forward by a back needs to be very fluid and non-sudden to not be ruled a false start.

Agreed on #2. Shut it down. Nothing good can happen for the offense, even though they'll be the ones complaining that you shut it down.