American Interp of Canadian Boys Thread

[hab_in_exile]

I am a Canadian that learned to officiate in the US and then moved back to Canada. It has been tough to adapt to the old rules, seen in a new light. I have been surprised at how difficult it has been.

I love doing football, but I hate the Canadian rules (many in Canada consider this unpatriotic, but I consider it just my opinion). The single point spices up one player per year, and renders 100's per year as silly. The no yards rule is a disaster in HS, because the kids can't figure it out properly.

Most importantly though is the three downs. This, in HS, means that every game is a puntfest since teams have a hard time moving the ball 10 yards in 2 plays. So it goes, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, 60 yard TD run, punt, punt etc. I wish we had the 4 downs so that the kids would have a chance to learn the offence and work on their skills much more. No one on the field is learning during the fire drill known as the HS punt.

Having said all that, I still love being on the field. Even in less-than-ideal conditions (for me) it is a great time.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
I am a Canadian that learned to officiate in the US and then moved back to Canada. It has been tough to adapt to the old rules, seen in a new light. I have been surprised at how difficult it has been.

Glad to have you back.

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
I love doing football, but I hate the Canadian rules (many in Canada consider this unpatriotic, but I consider it just my opinion). The single point spices up one player per year, and renders 100's per year as silly. The no yards rule is a disaster in HS, because the kids can't figure it out properly.

If you hate the Canadian rules, then one might conclude that you hate the game. If that's so, then why don't you look to officiate something else.

If kids can't grasp the NY concept, then it is the coaches' fault. I've been officiating 10 year olds for 9 years now and they have no problem with it. As for the single point, you are very much in the minority. In fact, one might say that "you're the guy."

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
Most importantly though is the three downs. This, in HS, means that every game is a puntfest since teams have a hard time moving the ball 10 yards in 2 plays. So it goes, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, 60 yard TD run, punt, punt etc. I wish we had the 4 downs so that the kids would have a chance to learn the offence and work on their skills much more. No one on the field is learning during the fire drill known as the HS punt.

I don't believe that for an instant.

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
Having said all that, I still love being on the field. Even in less-than-ideal conditions (for me) it is a great time.

To be honest, you have the right attitude, but only 50% of it. The other 50% is realizing the beauty of the game and loving it.

I'm sorry that you haven't had a "good game" in awhile.

The glass isn't twice as big as it needs to be, nor is it half-empty. The glass is half-full. Maybe this is what you need to read:

http://www.wwcfoa.ca/docs/Mr%20Referee.pdf

Best Regards for a Merry Christmas, hab.

[HossHumard]

Hab, you're entitled to your opinion but I disagree heartily with it, echoing everything the "juggler" says.

But, on your contention that HS football is a "puntfest" and younger players can't get the NY rule, you're dead wrong. Period. 95% of punt plays I see from 6 year old to 26 year olds go off without a NY, and most of the infractions are not because a player dosen't understand the rule, but because he violates it.

"Puntfest"? Give me a break. A lousy offence is a lousy offence and nine downs isn't going to help some of them no matter which side of the border they're on.

Lastly, don't even get me started on the single point....

[cdnRef]

If one tries to play the Canadian game like the American game then there will be a LOT of two-and-out situations and it ruins the game (IMHO).

Since highschool ball came back to Kelowna I've noticed that the coaches have started to Americanize their play selection at the community ball level. There arefewer backs in motion, maybe a shifting player, we never see slots in motion, almost all the teams have gone away from onside players on scrimmage kicks, and fancy offside plays downfield have gone away. In fact, the following two situations happened this year:

1) A coach for a team of 10 year-olds (Canadian rules) had to be asked to leave because he was so hard on the officials. He decided to take in the games as a fan and berated the side official, calling myself a terrible official claiming that we 'didn't know a damn thing about the game of football' because we let the running backs go in forward motion prior to the snap - he was downright indignent. He was also asked to leave the park.

2) A coach for a team of 14 year olds went up one side of me and down the other because I let the kicking team advance a legally recovered free kick. I know nothing about NFL or NCAA so this may hold across the board, but at least in NFHS the same play would have been blown dead when the kicking team recovered.

And this was just games that I was working. This has all happened over the last 4 years. I don't actualy blame either game for what I'm seeing on the field. Coaches get their inspiration where they will. Due to the success of the CFL over the last year I expect to see a lot more exciting play locally in the Canadian rules since more coaches will see the plays that you can do in Canadian ball and will let the kids do some trick stuff that can be pretty exciting.

This problem is regional, incidentally. I don't think it's just regional to BC either where we have an obvious cause for the Americanization of the Canadian game. It is my opinion that the excitement of the Canadian game depends entirely on how much influence coaches get from the American game.

Importantly, it does the kids no favours [note the correct spelling of the word 'favour'] to be trying to plug a square peg into a round hole. There is prescious little we can do about that tho as officials.

That's my two bits on the matter.

[ref18]

You've got to enjoy the game to officiate it. If you don't enjoy it, then re-evaluate why you're officiating.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Canadian football.

One high school league in my area plays with 4 downs. When switching between the 2 leagues, you can see the game slow down. Having 3 downs speeds up the game, makes it more challenging and way more interesting.

And Mike, you should've seen the new poem they came out with this year, "Mr. Touch Referee"

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18
And Mike, you should've seen the new poem they came out with this year, "Mr. Touch Referee"

Please, send it my way. I am actually going to re-publish the first poem to give credit to the author.

I found it uncredited a couple of years ago.

[ref18]

I'm actually trying to track down a copy now, it's more of a joke than anything. Just to give a bit of backround, touch football like mens league football. All the former players and some current pros play in leagues we do. I haven't touched the stuff yet.

But needless to say the poem starts off:

"Hello Mr. Touch Referee, how do you do?? I've been playing the game for years, I'm f**king smarter than you"

[hab_in_exile]

WOW!

I am impressed by the passionate defence of Canadian rules. I respectfully disagree on many counts, but I really do respect your viewpoint, and more importantly, your passion.

I have one more concern about the development angle with the Canadian rules. There was a time when the Canadian game was unique enough to be considered almost its own sport. I don't think that is the case now. Therefore, we are training our kids to be minor league football players. I think we owe it to the kids to train them to become major league players (despite the incredibly long odds). The CFL can then do whatever it wants. They are their own thing.

Secondly, I wanted to address the "you should stop officiating" angle. There is a lot more to football than single points, NY, or backfield motion. I defintely prefer the NFHS rules, but on the balance it is still football and I still enjoy it a lot. Being frustrated with the rules I don't like are the product of loving what I do, not hating it.

I just go out there and do my thing, learn the Cdn rules better, and do a better job of the game whenever I can. When I am the field, my disagreement with rules does not matter, I call what the book says, and I work the game the way the book says. Off the field (and on message boards) I vent a little.

Canadian football is in good hands. Your passion is impressive.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
I have one more concern about the development angle with the Canadian rules. There was a time when the Canadian game was unique enough to be considered almost its own sport. I don't think that is the case now. Therefore, we are training our kids to be minor league football players. I think we owe it to the kids to train them to become major league players (despite the incredibly long odds). The CFL can then do whatever it wants. They are their own thing.

Why do you think the Cdn game is not unique, now?

You used the word 'therefore'. I don't see a correlation between whether or not the Cdn game has lost some of it's uniqueness and what the football playing goals of our children are. Please, explain your reasoning.

To be major league players, one might concede that the only league to play in is the NFL, and it seems that is what you're saying. I disagree. The CFL is just a viable league for considering a successful playing career. (Why is that? I would do ANYTHING to be a player in the CFL.)

If the Cdn game has lost it's uniqueness, then it is more like football played in the USA, in which case you'd figure that Cdn athletes have a better chance to succeed south of the border - they're more familiar with the American game.

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
Being frustrated with the rules I don't like are the product of loving what I do, not hating it.

You're frustrated with the rules because you like the Fed rules better. Again, I'm sorry but the message that you're sending is that the glass is half-empty.

Without a doubt the rules will change because the skill set of the players increases. The game has to change with the times. But I think a big part of the uniqueness of the Cdn game is our penalty application. It hasn't changed in a long time. At leat 40 years anyways. (I own a 1966 Cdn rulebook.)

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
I just go out there and do my thing, learn the Cdn rules better, and do a better job of the game whenever I can. When I am the field, my disagreement with rules does not matter, I call what the book says, and I work the game the way the book says. Off the field (and on message boards) I vent a little.

Canadian football is in good hands. Your passion is impressive.

Merci beaucoup. When I work my first Grey Cup, you can't imagine the emotion attached to my blood. The history: the men who have previouslly excelled at the same game I'm about to adjudicate. Damn, that's enough to bring a tear to a man's eye. At least I hope it is. It was when I did my first minor final, my first HS final, and my first provincial final.

[ref18]

hab in exile, where abouts in Canada do you officiate football?

[ref18]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
(I own a 1966 Cdn rulebook.)

So I was looking around Ebay tonight and noticed that you're probably also going to own a 1980 rulebook too.

That is unless there's another jugglingreferee around.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18

So I was looking around Ebay tonight and noticed that you're probably also going to own a 1980 rulebook too.

That is unless there's another jugglingreferee around.

[hab_in_exile]

Hey:

Just to clarify on the development angle......

There is absolutely no shame in being in the CFL. None. The athletes are great and they play the game at a very high level. At the very least, they play football and get a paycheque every two weeks. Nice gig if you can get it, and very few can get it.

Having said that, almost by definition, the best player in the CFL is slightly worse than the worst player in the NFL. Some of the Canadian guys may have grown up dreaming of playing in the CFL, but not one of them would turn down a chance to playing on the biggest stage. Again, not because the CFL is bad, but because the NFL is better.

My arguement is that we are developing our kids to be the best of the second-best, rather than the best of the best. It would be like another sport developing their players with the goal of making it to the Pan Am Games. Pan Ams are awfully good, but everyone understands they are a step below the Olympics.

I also got asked where I officiate. I just moved, so I have not worked any games in the Ottawa area yet. My previous work was in Northern Alberta.

I would like to get better with the Cdn rules, as likely my lack of comfort is part of the problem. Thanks for keeping me on my toes guys.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by hab_in_exile
Hey:

Just to clarify on the development angle......

There is absolutely no shame in being in the CFL. None. The athletes are great and they play the game at a very high level. At the very least, they play football and get a paycheque every two weeks. Nice gig if you can get it, and very few can get it.

Having said that, almost by definition, the best player in the CFL is slightly worse than the worst player in the NFL. Some of the Canadian guys may have grown up dreaming of playing in the CFL, but not one of them would turn down a chance to playing on the biggest stage. Again, not because the CFL is bad, but because the NFL is better.

My arguement is that we are developing our kids to be the best of the second-best, rather than the best of the best. It would be like another sport developing their players with the goal of making it to the Pan Am Games. Pan Ams are awfully good, but everyone understands they are a step below the Olympics.

I also got asked where I officiate. I just moved, so I have not worked any games in the Ottawa area yet. My previous work was in Northern Alberta.

I would like to get better with the Cdn rules, as likely my lack of comfort is part of the problem. Thanks for keeping me on my toes guys.

I'll be in Ottawa in February at the level IV clinic! There are alot of great guys in Ottawa. Kevin, Barclay, Ross, Pierre, etc...

[ref18]

Just a question for any Canadian guys on the football forum.

I just bought Neil Payne's, Crime & Punishment : My Life as a CFL Official for a relative of mine who officiates football.

Has anyone read this book, and if so, is it any good???