Fouls during an extended dead ball period!

[CBrockett]

Trying to figure out if my crew administrated the play correctly?

Third down play results in a dead ball on B's 3-yard line across the field from the chains.... and we leave the ball lay on the far side of the field. Approx. 10 yards behind the location of the dead ball, and in the way of a possible chain measurement is an injured player. We call timeout and decide we will wait for the injured player to be relocated before we make a measurement. At about this time we make this decision, a B player says to the hurt A player "get up you f***ing N*g*r!" We throw flags and decide we have unsportmanship foul. We don't eject since both players are black. At this time the officiating crew decides we have no need to bring the chains out, and we have a first down. Approximately 30 seconds after this decision we have an A player use the same remarks towards a B player. Flags again and dead ball unsportmanlike conduct. We don't eject since again both players are black.

The way we administrated the foul was first in goal at the 16.5 yard line... I am thinking it should have been first in 10 from the 16.5 yard line, or fourth and 13.5 yards from the 16.5 yard line....

You make the call!

What have you to say about that?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by CBrockett
Trying to figure out if my crew administrated the play correctly?

Third down play results in a dead ball on B's 3-yard line across the field from the chains.... and we leave the ball lay on the far side of the field. Approx. 10 yards behind the location of the dead ball, and in the way of a possible chain measurement is an injured player. We call timeout and decide we will wait for the injured player to be relocated before we make a measurement. At about this time we make this decision, a B player says to the hurt A player "get up you f***ing N*g*r!" We throw flags and decide we have unsportmanship foul. We don't eject since both players are black. At this time the officiating crew decides we have no need to bring the chains out, and we have a first down. Approximately 30 seconds after this decision we have an A player use the same remarks towards a B player. Flags again and dead ball unsportmanlike conduct. We don't eject since again both players are black.

The way we administrated the foul was first in goal at the 16.5 yard line... I am thinking it should have been first in 10 from the 16.5 yard line, or fourth and 13.5 yards from the 16.5 yard line....

You make the call!

What have you to say about that?

The first racial comment is an automatic ejection. There is no other way to cut it. Doing so probably would have prevented any other further comments.

At this point, I would wait for the injured player before the measurement. Without the racial comment, I might do otherwise... I'd have to be there to know for sure.

After the 2nd racial comment, I would send both teams to their benches and let their coaches deal with the babysitting.

[mcrowder]

The worst part of that whole post was where you said (TWICE!) "because they were black". What? We administer penalties differently because of the color of their skin? Maybe if you'd ejected the first guy, you wouldn't have had the 2nd foul. Would you have ejected a white player if he'd said, "Get up, you f**k**g honkey" Uh, yes.

Anyway, other than that gross negligence, speaking NCAA, and from what I gather from FED interps here, sounds like you guys did the rest right.

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by mcrowder
The worst part of that whole post was where you said (TWICE!) "because they were black". What? We administer penalties differently because of the color of their skin? Maybe if you'd ejected the first guy, you wouldn't have had the 2nd foul. Would you have ejected a white player if he'd said, "Get up, you f**k**g honkey" Uh, yes.

Anyway, other than that gross negligence, speaking NCAA, and from what I gather from FED interps here, sounds like you guys did the rest right.

We've had this conversation before but the n word has become a universal greeting between many black people. It's not treated as an insult. Should we enforce our biases towards the players when no harm was meant or received by either party.

[CBrockett]

This is one of the reasons I brought this up. Both teams like I said were predominately black. There was brief discussion amongst the crew about ejecting the player, but we decided as crew not to eject. I would like to hear on wether the n* word is a racial slur amongst blacks on opposing teams.

Cbrockett

[mcrowder]

You still eject them for the N word. Even you told us that someone didn't like it enough to respond to it with profanity.

But even if by some misguided "understanding" of the intent of the word (which I cannot imagine being used as a nice word in the context that you describe), don't you eject him just for the F-Bomb?

And my sense of fairness cannot tolerate not ejecting someone for doing something that would cause you to eject someone else doing that same thing if the player doing it was of a different race. That is a slippery slope.

[KWH]

Originally posted by CBrockett
Trying to figure out if my crew administrated the play correctly?

Third down play results in a dead ball on B's 3-yard line across the field from the chains.... and we leave the ball lay on the far side of the field. Approx. 10 yards behind the location of the dead ball, and in the way of a possible chain measurement is an injured player. We call timeout and decide we will wait for the injured player to be relocated before we make a measurement. At about this time we make this decision, a B player says to the hurt A player "get up you f***ing N*g*r!" We throw flags and decide we have unsportmanship foul. We don't eject since both players are black. At this time the officiating crew decides we have no need to bring the chains out, and we have a first down. Approximately 30 seconds after this decision we have an A player use the same remarks towards a B player. Flags again and dead ball unsportmanlike conduct. We don't eject since again both players are black.

The way we administrated the foul was first in goal at the 16.5 yard line... I am thinking it should have been first in 10 from the 16.5 yard line, or fourth and 13.5 yards from the 16.5 yard line....

You make the call!

What have you to say about that?

1) At the end of the live ball play you should have been first and goal on the B3.
2) After the UC against B you should have been first and goal on the B 1.5 yard line.
3) After the UC by A you should have been first and 10 on the B 16.5.

A should never have to start a new series with greater than 1st and 10 as there had not been a ready-for-play whistle prior to one of the UC penalties.

As for the racial comments and the profanity.
9-5-1b...Using profanity, insulting or vulgar language or gestures.
This rule pretty much covers your situation earns a UC penalty.
The PENALTY enforcment below 9-5-1b includes: Also disqualification if flagrant

Question: Can an insulting or vulgar comment be any more flagrant than to call someone a "f***ing N*g*r?"


Thats my 2 cents



[Edited by KWH on Oct 4th, 2004 at 03:51 PM]

[CBrockett]

I agree with the admin KWH...Accept we were not sure it was going to be first in goal at the B's three. It was still up to the chains.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle


We've had this conversation before but the n word has become a universal greeting between many black people. It's not treated as an insult. Should we enforce our biases towards the players when no harm was meant or received by either party.

It is? That is interesting. I am have been Black all my life, funny I do not seen many Black people greet me like that. Matter of fact I know many that never greet each other like that. I think you have been spending too much time watching TV.

Peace

[CBrockett]

So Jrutledge.

You would have ejected both players for using the N* word?

CBrockett

[JRutledge]

I think there is a different situation with players of the same race using this language towards each other. I have made that point of view clear here and on other sites.

You have an opponent taunting another opponent in this situation. The usage of a single word does not change that fact. To say it is automatic ejection is not quite as black and white from my point of view. For me that would depend on the tone, the volume and the context of the usage of this word and any word. And yes, it would matter if I had two players of the same race (as it relates to this situation) for an ejection.

I know some will disagree. This is not up for a vote or discussion as far as I am concerned. I am Black and know the origin of this word and how I feel about it. I do not care what others really think as well. You do not have to agree either. I am going to do what I feel is best and it is never "automatic" from my point of view. I might come to that conclusion, but I still am going to consider context and tone.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by CBrockett
So Jrutledge.

You would have ejected both players for using the N* word?

CBrockett

Did you say only one player called an opponent that word? Why would I eject two players for the actions of one player?

Peace

[cmathews]

JRut,
It happened first from a B player and then an A player. I agree with your earlier post that in this situation it would depend more on Tone of voice and Context than it would color of skin or language...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by cmathews
JRut,
It happened first from a B player and then an A player. I agree with your earlier post that in this situation it would depend more on Tone of voice and Context than it would color of skin or language...

The color of the skin would matter to me as well. But I am more concerned by the reaction of the player or opponents that heard him.

Let us take race out of it for a second. What if he said, "get your punk behind up!" I do not know I would eject a player for just saying that. It would produce a flag, but not just for the wording, but for taunting. I might not even hear that at all. If I see a player gesturing and pointing at the hurt player, that would draw a flag from me, but not necessarily an ejection.

Peace

[SouthGARef]

If a player calls someone a "fing n#g#@r" on my field I don't care if he's white, black, mexican, australian, purple, blue, or yellow--he's going home.