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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 03:37pm
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Can someone explain this to me as it pertains to penalty enforcement? It was covered in a presentation last night, but I didn't grasp it.
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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 03:59pm
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There are 4 fouls - fouls by the offense behind the basic spot and those beyond the basic spot and fouls by the defense behind the basic spot and beyond it. All fouls except fouls by the offense behind the basic spot are enforced from the basic spot. This one foul is enforced from the spot of the foul.

So, all but one foul is enforced from the basic spot. On running plays, the basic spot is the end of the run, where the runner lost possession or where the runner went out of bounds. On loose ball plays, the basic spot is the previous spot.

So if A1 runs from the A20 to the A30 and his teammate holds at the A25, this is a foul by the offense behind the basic spot (the end of the run) and will enforced from there - the A25. Repeat the down 10 yards back from the A25.

Hope that clears it up.

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Old Tue Aug 10, 2004, 04:16pm
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REPLY: I'll try. The all-but-one principle applies to player fouls that are not committed simultaneously with the snap. Therefore, it applies to fouls like holding, clipping, block in the back, illegal use of hands, lilve ball personal fouls, face mask, etc.

First, make sure you understand completely the following definitions in rule 2:
* Running Play
* Loose Ball Play
* End of the run
* Basic Spot
* Offense
* Defense

Whenever any player foul occurs, you must determine the type of play (loose ball, running play) was in progress at the time of the foul. That will allow you to determine the BASIC SPOT of enforcement. Think of this as the "default" spot of enforcement.

The “all-but-one” principle determines the actual spot of enforcement and is based upon knowing WHO committed the foul (offense or defense) and WHERE the foul was committed relative to the basic spot of enforcement.

There are four (4) possibilities (combinations) of who committed the foul and where relative to the basic spot:

1. By the offense behind the basic spot
2. By the offense beyond the basic spot
3. By the defense behind the basic spot
4. By the defense beyond the basic spot

For three of these, enforcing the penalty from the basic spot provides no unfair advantage to the fouling team and provides no undue burden on the fouled team. But one of them (#1 specifically) could allow the offense to gain an unfair advantage if we enforced from the basic spot. So...

All situations except one are enforced from the basic spot. The lone exception is a foul by the offense that occurs behind the basic spot (#1 above). Such a foul will be enforced from the spot of the foul. For that reason, such a foul is often referred to as a “spot foul.” That’s why it’s important that on player fouls, your flag is not just thrown into the air, but rather is thrown directly to the spot of the foul or at least dropped on the yardline where the foul occurs.

The all-but-one principle is the best way of ensuring the the fouling offensive team gets the advantage of all yardage gained without the benefit of their foul and no more. Hope this helps.
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 06:37am
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Here is an article I wrote for my site about this.

http://www.footballrefs.com/show_article.php?id=1


BTW, Bob M has written an extensive article covering many more details of penalty enforcement and it is an OUTSTANDING document.

http://www.footballrefs.com/show_article.php?id=3

FYI:
Both articles are from 2003. There were some minor changes to Post Scrimmage Kick enforcement this year that need to be changed in each article. Bob has made his changes but I have yet to post them. I haven't yet made the changes to mine (to my shame)

[Edited by mikesears on Aug 11th, 2004 at 07:42 AM]
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ABoselli
There are 4 fouls - fouls by the offense behind the basic spot and those beyond the basic spot and fouls by the defense behind the basic spot and beyond it. All fouls except fouls by the offense behind the basic spot are enforced from the basic spot. This one foul is enforced from the spot of the foul.

So, all but one foul is enforced from the basic spot. On running plays, the basic spot is the end of the run, where the runner lost possession or where the runner went out of bounds. On loose ball plays, the basic spot is the previous spot.

So if A1 runs from the A20 to the A30 and his teammate holds at the A25, this is a foul by the offense behind the basic spot (the end of the run) and will enforced from there - the A25. Repeat the down 10 yards back from the A25.

Hope that clears it up.


Aboseli does an excellent job of explaining all but one...I might however add one small thing...the basic spot for PSK is the end of the kick...and the receiving team becomes the offense so to speak...so if the receiving team holds at the 25, the kick ends at the 30 with a fair catch...the basic spot is the 30 the penalty for holding will be enforced from the 25 as it is an offensive foul behind the basic spot...in other words the "one"...assuming all other PSK criteria are met...
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 10:26am
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Thanks.

Actually it clicked last night in my class and it makes sense now.

This is basically the same concept that enforces an offensive holding penalty in the backfield from the spot of the foul, rather than the "basic spot," which in the case of a running play would be wherever the run ends, which could be 10 yards downfield, correct?
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 11:46am
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You've got it!

An easy way to think of it also is that A is entitled to all the yardage it gained without the benefit of a foul. So if A1 runs from his 20 to his 40 but his lunkhead teammate held a B player at the 35, A is entitled to all those yards he got without the aid of an illegal act by his teammate. That's why we mark off from the spot of the foul, because he got the rest of those yards only because (theoretically) his buddy fouled B.

In this example, it would bring up 1st and 5 as the line to gain is still the 30 (let's assume it was first down and ten which I can because I made the play up - I can do whatever I want) and we went 10 yards back from the 35, repeat the down.



[Edited by ABoselli on Aug 11th, 2004 at 12:56 PM]
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Old Wed Aug 11, 2004, 12:25pm
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And this is just a stathead addition to that - but statistically, the runner actually gets that yardage to the point of the enforcement. Or at least, he used to. I used to have a copy of the NFL's statistical guidelines many years ago that covered stuff like yardage before penalties and that part has always stuck with me.

Thanks.
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Old Thu Aug 12, 2004, 06:47am
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Here is a link to Tim Stevens' article that appeared in Officiating.com a while back. To get a full understanding, though, you should read the other parts of his series on "penalty enforcement." This is only the part about "all but one..."

http://football.officiating.com/x/article/3507

The Rules Study Guide by Demetriou and Redding is another good reference.

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Old Thu Aug 12, 2004, 12:09pm
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Except ya gotta be a member to read it, and I'm not.
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Old Thu Aug 12, 2004, 12:41pm
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Lightbulb Where is it going to hurt them the most?

I think what Tim said the other night is the best starting point.

"Hit it where it hurts them the most."

That is basically what it is. That is a great starting point until you understand all the situations it does not apply.

But when the offense commmits a foul, you are going penalize them where they will lose the most yardage.

I am still confused by the language of this principle as it relates to the rulebook. But when I applied the phrase above into practice, I have no problem understanding what to do.

Most fouls by the defense (or the most called fouls) are going to go back to the previous spot or the LOS. Of course Roughing the Passer and facemask fouls do not apply, but if you know when those are, you should have little problem understanding it.

Secondly if you understand what Previous spot, Basic spot and succeeding spot are, then this becomes even easier.

Peace
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Old Mon Aug 16, 2004, 09:44am
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The comments on the all but one principle are great. One more thing to note: If the defense gets the ball by any means( interception, fumble recovery) and is advacing the ball, they are now by defintion on OFFENSE and the all but one principle applys to any foul by them.
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Old Mon Aug 16, 2004, 05:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by OverAndBack
Except ya gotta be a member to read it, and I'm not.
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Old Sat Sep 11, 2004, 04:18pm
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More on enforcement spot

If the offense gains 15 yards on a rush, but commits a penalty behind the LOS (illegal block), is the enforcement spot the spot of the foul... or is it the LOS?

Also, does the play count(ie is the offense credited with a rush to the enforcement... either 0 yards or minus yards in this case)?

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Old Sat Sep 11, 2004, 09:04pm
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Re: More on enforcement spot

Quote:
Originally posted by wmena
If the offense gains 15 yards on a rush, but commits a penalty behind the LOS (illegal block), is the enforcement spot the spot of the foul... or is it the LOS?
On a running play, the LOS of scrimmage has nothing to do with enforcement. The foul is either from the end of the run, or from the spot if the foul is behind the end of the run.
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