Safety on a Try - NFHS

[DeltaRef]

I am reading the NFHS rules, (Rule 8), and I see that during a Try, (Section 3) the Ball becomes dead when B secures possession.

I understand this to mean the play is over, no score, move on to the kick off.

But under Section 1 of Rule 8, the chart showing point values indicate under SUCCESSFUL TRY that 1 point will be given for a Field Goal or Safety.

That last part about a Safety has me confused. Does this mean that if during a Try that if K some how finds it's self going 97 yards the wrong way that a Safety is scored, with one point for B?

If the Ball becomes dead as B secures pssession, then how could there be a safety on B with one point for K? You can't score with a dead ball. Just curious and a bit confused.

[Tundra Ref]

This is tough topic to explain, but I will give it a try. If a try is fumbled, for example, and B attempts to recover but muffs the ball (a new force per 2-13-1) into and out of his own end zone it would result in a one-point safety for A because B did not gain possession to kill the try. This is my understanding of the rule.

[Snake~eyes]

If the team runs the wrong way or some how ends up down on the other end then a safety can occur that way. Basically team B cannot advance the ball. Also Tundra Ref gives an example of team B getting a safety.

Now here's one. Team A on the try fumbles the ball into their own endzone, B jumps on the ball. What's the call?

[Bob Floyd]

Originally posted by DeltaRef
I am reading the NFHS rules, (Rule 8), and I see that during a Try, (Section 3) the Ball becomes dead when B secures possession.

I understand this to mean the play is over, no score, move on to the kick off.

But under Section 1 of Rule 8, the chart showing point values indicate under SUCCESSFUL TRY that 1 point will be given for a Field Goal or Safety.

That last part about a Safety has me confused. Does this mean that if during a Try that if K some how finds it's self going 97 yards the wrong way that a Safety is scored, with one point for B?

If the Ball becomes dead as B secures pssession, then how could there be a safety on B with one point for K? You can't score with a dead ball. Just curious and a bit confused.

Casebook play 8.3.3 explains how you can have a safety against B on a try resulting in one point being scored for A.

[Bob Floyd]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
If the team runs the wrong way or some how ends up down on the other end then a safety can occur that way. Basically team B cannot advance the ball. Also Tundra Ref gives an example of team B getting a safety.

Now here's one. Team A on the try fumbles the ball into their own endzone, B jumps on the ball. What's the call?

A's try is unsuccessful. The try ends when B secures possession. No points are scored. B cannot score on a try. (Oregon may disagree, however)

[KWH]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
If the team runs the wrong way or some how ends up down on the other end then a safety can occur that way. Basically team B cannot advance the ball.

Sorry Snake~eyes however, your'e ruling is incorrect!
The result of the play is an unsuccessful try by A.

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Basically team B cannot advance the ball. Also Tundra Ref gives an example of team B getting a safety.

Tundra Ref's ruling on his play is the correct as a safety during a try can only occur in B's end zone!

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Now here's one. Team A on the try fumbles the ball into their own endzone, B jumps on the ball. What's the call?

The result of the play is an unsuccessful try by A. Team B can not score during a try!


Both of snake eyes sample plays result in unsuccessful trys for A (or K).
Team B (or K) CAN NOT SCORE during a try under current NFHS Rules.
Therefore, for clarification, if the ball (somehow) were to become dead in A's endzone (97 years the other way) it would not matter who was in possession as the result of the play would be an unsuccesful try by A (or R).

Additionally, (as Bob Floyd noted) and only if you officiate in Oregon is there an experimental rule during 2004 and 2005 that allows the defense to score during a try!
If you officiate anywhere else, the rulings above are correct.

[bigwes68]

Just to stir the pot a bit more:

Tried this on NCAA Football 2004 (the video game) -- took the snap on a try and ran 97 yards straight backwards out of A's end zone. B got one point. It was the last play of the game. Final score: Tennessee 55, Mississippi State 1.

Granted, I know video games are not going to have the rules completely right. But would a safety on a try by A give B a point under NCAA rules?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Agree with tundra's explanation up top but I'd like to clarify for some of our newer guys:

IN FEDERATION: B's muff doesn't automatically impart a new force on a grounded loose ball. Suffice it to say that the rules don't specifically say what's necessary to rule that a new force has been applied. They only say that a new force MAY be applied to a grounded loose ball. Check with your local association on how they like this ruled. Some interpretations look for B's muff to cause a change of direction as the key to ruling a new force. In other parts of the country, you must be convinced that the ball could not have entered B's end zone of its own accord. It pretty much requires the ball to be at rest or nearly at rest before you would rule the muff to be a new force.

IN NCAA: There are only two ways that you can rule a new impetus (NCAA-ish for "force") has been applied to a loose ball: (1) if a player kicks or bats the grounded loose ball, he's considered to have imparted a new impetus, or (2) if the loose ball is at rest, any contact with it imparts a new impetus.

Federation has an additional statement that force is immaterial when a kick enters B's endzone since it's a touchback by rule. And both codes are generally in agreement that you cannot impart a new force/impetus to a loose ball in flight. And remember also, that differences between NCAA and Federation rules regarding the legality of batting, and kicks entering B's endzone remaining alive account for some of the needed differences in the rules regarding force/impetus.

[KWH]

Originally posted by bigwes68
Just to stir the pot a bit more:

Tried this on NCAA Football 2004 (the video game) -- took the snap on a try and ran 97 yards straight backwards out of A's end zone. B got one point. It was the last play of the game. Final score: Tennessee 55, Mississippi State 1.

Granted, I know video games are not going to have the rules completely right. But would a safety on a try by A give B a point under NCAA rules?

The video game is correct.
Under NCAA rules, A may score 2-points for a touchdown, 1-point for a safety by B, or 1-point for a field goal.
Additionally, B may score 2-points for a touchdown or 1-point for a saftey by A. See NCAA FR 8-3-2
Since the result of you play (on your video game) was a safety by A, B was correctly awarded 1-point.

Now, if the same play were to happen under NFHS rules, the result would be an unsuccessful try by A. See NFHS 8-3-3
(Exception: OREGON during 2004 and 2005 where an experimental rule would have resulted in the same ruling as NCAA.)