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Mon May 17, 2004, 06:05pm
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In reading through the topic started by sm_bbcoach regarding inadvertent whistle's in the kicking game I got to thinking about a mechanic that was used in a midget game I was working a few years back that didn't quite sit well with me. Our crew at the varsity level definitely doesn't use it but I suspect some at the high school or college levels perhaps do. Here goes...
On a TRY the official I was working with blew his whistle the very second the ball was kicked. Clearly an IW. I immediately questioned it and was told it was appropriate. His rationale was that "nothing good could come out of the play." He said the kids stop hitting immediately and whether the kick was blocked, no good, or good the ball would be dead in all situations. The practice of doing it this way just didn't sit well with me. I'm curious as to whether this is a widespread practice and what people think of it. 
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Mon May 17, 2004, 06:17pm
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I don't really see the point, just antoher way to get an IW.
It's football, kids are going to hit eachother.
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Mon May 17, 2004, 06:19pm
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Our HS association uses this mechanic as well. We have for years and have had very little problems except when we do it during a field goal! YIKES!
Obviously, this would not work in NCAA. Also, it will not work this year in Oregon since we are using the scari-mental rule for PAT's. UE
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Mon May 17, 2004, 07:38pm
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NCAA: the ball remains LIVE on a try. No one I know of blows the whistle as soon as it is kicked. They'll not be working too many additional games if they did.
NF: call it an IW it you like, you'd be right if this were a test question. We prefer to call it a DW for deliberate whistle. While the whistle is not blown as soon as the foot contacts the ball, it is blown as soon as the ball has crossed the NZ. We're only talking mircoseconds here, but that's what we do. When and if NF ever decides the TRY remains live then we'll stop this practice/mechanic. Otherwise it does no harm at all.
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Mon May 17, 2004, 08:12pm
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Also have used this mechanic as a 4-man referee under fed rules. The kick is either going thru or not. The whistle after the kick cannot effect the play (nobody that close to blocking the kick is going to react to the whistle that quickly), but can stop "extra" activities.
Have never had a coach complain. Since we started going to 5 men with the BJ & LJ under we don't blow until the ball crosses through or no. I like Topic Review (Newest First) Theisey's term "DW".
__________________
Jim Schroeder Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2, Read Rule 2!
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Mon May 17, 2004, 09:23pm
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Know we are not talking about the NFL but Mike Pereria said it best in an article following last season's playoff.
A whistle does not kill the play. My crew talked about when and who should blow the whistle on a try. My consensus was, no one. On any play in football, minus the IW, the play is over and the sound of the whistle is only an indication of such. On a try the play technically ends when the ball crosses the crossbar or the kick has definitely failed. And, that is because B has the opportunity to block the kick from crossing the crossbar. So the correct time to blow the whistle is after the kick is definitely missed. So my reasoning was, why bother. Line blocking will be over and everbody else will be headed toward the bench.
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Tue May 18, 2004, 06:53am
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Interesting point Ed. That was the precise reasoning used by a CUSA official in a game I worked with. He was the FJ and I was the SJ.
He said "they" do not blow the whistle at all on Trys. The play kills itself. Sure enought, on every kick since none were blocked, the players just picked themselves off the ground and headed off to the bench area. The Ref was having some fits over this, but was convinced by the FJ not to worry about it. At the NF level, its my opinion the whistle has to be blown. Especially on a blocked try. Too much extracurricular activities start to occur when team B starts a runback. We don't even let them get to the ball.
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Tue May 18, 2004, 07:39am
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Nobody has ever blown the whistle without the ball getting kicked? It seems you're setting yourself up for such an occurence if a) The holder doesn't get the snap down and although the kicker is going through his motion, no kick ends up occurring or b) there's a fake on.
It just seems like it's possible somebody could anticipate a kick that never transpires and then we've got an IW.
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Tue May 18, 2004, 08:39am
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Quote:
Concentration is knowing your responsibilities and mentally reviewing them before each down
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Tue May 18, 2004, 09:35am
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I guess that's a no.
I subscribe to the "if it aint broke" theory, I guess. Once it is good or no good, the BJ and LJ look at each other and agree yes or no, LJ blows the whistle and they both step forward and do the signal. That brings it in line with every other play in the game - the whistle 'punctuates' the play. No whistle? - fine. Whistle at the end? - fine. Whistle in the middle? - doesn't seem right. But hey - if you like it, who am I to stop you?
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Tue May 18, 2004, 11:37am
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Quote:
Otherwise, there is another sounding device we carry that in my belief is not used enough...the voice. As the WH I always tell the players when the ball leaves the area with something like "It's gone", "It's over", etc. The umpire should clean up with "Let's go, play is over" or some such statement loud enough for players to hear and heed. If you use that on a try, you don't need a whistle because the downfield players are just going to turn and run to the bench.
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Tue May 18, 2004, 07:48pm
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HS football---
back in CNY (Syracuse Chapter) as the U---- I woyld blow a long hard whistle on the kick try when the ball went over me---- it would let the players know that the kick was on its way and to stop what they were doing and get back to their team sideline for the kick-off to follow ! Never had a problem with it !! Down here in SW FL-- they do not want it- and I don't blow it ! Oh-yeah- we made damn sure we knew when it was a Field goal attempt !
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Keep everything in front of you and have fun out there !!
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Wed May 19, 2004, 06:44am
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On a try we wait till the ball crosses the goal line and then we blow the whistle. This will ensure the kick is off. Don't want a kicker running up to kick the ball and have the holder muff the snap and they end up going for 2 only to have a whistle blow with the "kick". The BJ of FJ will blow the whistle. At any other point the kick becomes no good it will be kill at that point, i.e. a block.
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Jim Need an out, get an out. Need a run, balk it in.
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Wed May 19, 2004, 08:32am
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REPLY: My own preferences for Fed kick tries...
1. If the kick is in a high trajectory and long enough to ensure that it will clear crossbar height with room to spare, I blow as soon as the kick crosses the goal line. 2. If it's in a low trajectory, I blow when it passes me (BJ/LJ on endline). 3. If it's a high short kick where there's question as to whether it will clear the crossbar, I wait until the ball becomes dead by rule. The last thing I want is a whistle followed by a defender tipping the ball over the crossbar. Truth is these things happen so fast, it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference if you wait that extra half-second or so.
__________________
Bob M.
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Wed May 19, 2004, 08:38pm
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A few years ago on a 4-man crew as the LJ my job was to cover the over the crossbar. Once the snap went I would sprint to the endline.
On this one play I took off expecting to hear the "thud" and look up. Not hearing the "thud" I turned to watch the wide receiver make a great catch with no defensive coverage. My point is, football is a game of deception. But don't let yourself be deceived.
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