Uncle Ernie's May Quiz

[James Neil]

Ok guys, It’s May already and just a couple of months to go before we’re back at it. We got lots of great plays to work on for the next few days so let gets at them. And remember the clock!

1. A 2/4 B30. A88 catches a legal forward pass and runs to the B5, where he is hit and fumbles the ball high into the air. B99, seeing that A90 is going to catch it, bats the ball into the endzone where it rolls across the end line.

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2. A 4/10 A4. A99's punt is high and short. B88 is waiting to field the punt. Before the ball can be caught, A77 blows up B88 with a vicious hit at the B40. The ball hits B88 and rolls to the B45 where A66 recovers while grounded. After the hit, but before the ball is recovered, B88 swears at A77. During the play, B78 is flagged for running into the kicker

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3. A 2/10 B15. On a sweep around the left end, the A32 carries the ball to the B4, where he is hit and fumbles. The ball goes up in the air and B99, who has been chasing A32, catches the ball in the air at the B-2 and his momentum carries him into his end zone. He regains his balance and attempts to run the ball out of the end zone, is hit, fumbles and the ball rolls out of bounds at the B3.

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4. A 3/11 A49. There is a man in motion across the formation and at the snap he is between the Tackle and Tight End. He continues to a spot 3 yards outside of the Tight End, stops, and goes back towards the spot of the snap and blocks low below the waist against the Linebacker at the 50. The ball carrier runs the to the B35 where he is forced out of bounds.

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5. A 3/10 A30. At the snap, the Blocking back is lined up stationary behind the Right Tackle. On a Wide Receiver reverse, this back is now leading the blocking, runs out around the right end position and blocks back towards the spot of the snap, low against the Defensive Back at the A34. The Wide Receiver is tripped at the A45, fumbles and the ball rolls out of bounds at the A49.

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6. A 3/4 B7. The Defensive End blocks the Tight End below the waist immediately after the snap at the LOS. The Quarterback scrambles to the B4 where he fumbles. The Defensive Back seeing that the Quarterback was going to recover the ball, deliberately bats the ball backward into his end zone. Another B player recovers the ball with his foot on the end line. A was illegally in motion at the snap

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7. A 2/6 B40. The Right Tackle false starts just prior to the Center snapping the ball. The Defensive Lineman not reacting to the whistles and flags and seeing the QB with the ball runs into the backfield and throws the Quarterback to the ground.

[Lin-Jdg]

NCAA Answers

1. B 1/10 B20 Snap. No new impetus.
2. A 1/10 A19. Snap. Eject A77.
3. B 1/10 B4. Snap. Momentum.
4. A 3/25 A35. Snap.
5. A 1/10 A45. Ready
6. A 3/9 B12 Safety.
7. A 1/10 B30.

[biglaz]

NFHS

It's late, but here I go anyway...

1. B 1/10 B20, Snap

2. A77 probably ejected. A 1/10 A19, Snap.

3. B 1/10 B3, Snap. Ball must be dead in endzone for momentum exception.

4. A 3/25 A35, Snap.

5. I'm assuming by a "low" block you mean below the waist. A 3/21 A19, Snap.

6. Illegal motion + Illegal Batting offset. A 3/4 B7, Snap.

7. Depending on the contact between the lineman and the QB, you'd have a PF and possibly an ejection if warranted. A 1/10 B30, previous clock status.

[jransom]

Biglaz, I agree with all but #1. You have a penalty during a loose-ball play, which means you will penalize from the previous spot--15 yard penalty for illegal batting takes you to the B15 1st and 10 for A, clock on snap. If for some strange reason the penalty was declined, your touchback answer would be correct.

J Ransom

[James Neil]

Originally posted by jransom
Biglaz, I agree with all but #1. You have a penalty during a loose-ball play, which means you will penalize from the previous spot--15 yard penalty for illegal batting takes you to the B15 1st and 10 for A, clock on snap. If for some strange reason the penalty was declined, your touchback answer would be correct.

J Ransom

Sorry jran but there’s no foul here .Batting a fumble in flight is legal
check NF 9-7-2...No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in flight, or a low scrimmage kick in flight which he is attempting to block in or behind the expanded neutral zone.
If we look at the play , that’s exactly what B88 did.

1. A 2/4 B30. A88 catches a legal forward pass and runs to the B5, where he is hit and fumbles the ball high into the air . B99, seeing that A90 is going to catch it, bats the ball into the endzone where it rolls across the end line.

But lets say that B99 had batted the ball after it had hit the ground . This would not be a foul during a loose ball play . The loose ball play ended and became a running play after the completion of the pass . The BS would be the end off A88’s run. In that case we’d go 1/2 the distance to the B-2.5

BTW I agree with the rest of biglaz's answers




[Edited by James Neil on May 15th, 2004 at 11:23 AM]

[jransom]

Hopefully, we all learn something new everyday. Thanks for the running play clarification; it didn't seem right when I wrote it, but I couldn't figure out why. Although I've been through the rulebook thousands of times, I never thought through the situation that was presented by batting "a fumble in flight." Even though the ruling is pretty well cut-and-dried, I don't particularly care for the spirit involved in this particular scenario. Almost anywhere else on the field, it's not anything to balk at, but down near the goaline here, what ends up happening is that the team NOT in possesion gets the ball by sending it out-of-bounds. Kinda bothersome, but without undue exceptions, I guess it's easier to enforce the way it is. And that's an important thing that I have stressed before on other forums--we can have issues with the spirit of the rule, but we still have the duty to enforce it whether we like it or not. It would not be fair for me to see this play on the field and give the ball back to A for an illegal bat just because I thought that's the way it "should" be.

J Ransom

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I know I'm a little late responding, but I'll take a shot anyway...

Ernie’s plays always are geared toward NCAA rulings, but I’ll give them a shot wearing my Federation hat. NCAA rulings would be different.

1. A 2/4 B30. A88 catches a legal forward pass and runs to the B5, where he is hit and fumbles the ball high into the air. B99, seeing that A90 is going to catch it, bats the ball into the endzone where it rolls across the end line.

RULING: Touchback, B 1/10 @ B’s 20. Clock on snap. No new force for muffing--or batting--a fumble in flight.

2. A 4/10 A4. A99's punt is high and short. B88 is waiting to field the punt. Before the ball can be caught, A77 blows up B88 with a vicious hit at the B40. The ball hits B88 and rolls to the B45 where A66 recovers while grounded. After the hit, but before the ball is recovered, B88 swears at A77. During the play, B78 is flagged for running into the kicker.

RULING: First of all, eject A77 assuming that his hit was a flagrant personal foul. Secondly, the ball hitting B88 is ignored because he was blocked (“blown up”) into it. Therefore, A66’s recovery constitutes a first touch as well as causing the ball to become dead. B78’s foul is not PSK-enforceable because of where it took place. Therefore, you have a double foul—replay the down. But you’ve got the DBF against B88. March off the 15 – Result: A, 1-10 from A’s 19. Clock on the snap (new series following a legal kick). Seems a little inequitable considering A’s personal foul.

3. A 2/10 B15. On a sweep around the left end, the A32 carries the ball to the B4, where he is hit and fumbles. The ball goes up in the air and B99, who has been chasing A32, catches the ball in the air at the B-2 and his momentum carries him into his end zone. He regains his balance and attempts to run the ball out of the end zone, is hit, fumbles and the ball rolls out of bounds at the B3.

RULING: B, 1/10 from B’s 3. Clock on snap

4. A 3/11 A49. There is a man in motion across the formation and at the snap he is between the Tackle and Tight End. He continues to a spot 3 yards outside of the Tight End, stops, and goes back towards the spot of the snap and blocks low below the waist against the Linebacker at the 50. The ball carrier runs the to the B35 where he is forced out of bounds.

RULING: BBW. A, 3/25 from A’s 35. Clock on snap.

5. A 3/10 A30. At the snap, the Blocking back is lined up stationary behind the Right Tackle. On a Wide Receiver reverse, this back is now leading the blocking, runs out around the right end position and blocks back towards the spot of the snap, low against the Defensive Back at the A34. The Wide Receiver is tripped at the A45, fumbles and the ball rolls out of bounds at the A49.

RULING: Play – A 1/10 from A’s 49 (ridiculous); Penalty – BBW. A, 3/21 from A’s 19. Clock on snap.

6. A 3/4 B7. The Defensive End blocks the Tight End below the waist immediately after the snap at the LOS. The Quarterback scrambles to the B4 where he fumbles. The Defensive Back seeing that the Quarterback was going to recover the ball, deliberately bats the ball backward into his end zone. Another B player recovers the ball with his foot on the end line. A was illegally in motion at the snap

RULING: Fouls by each team where there is no change of possession – Double Foul; A replays 3rd and 4 from B’s 7. Clock on snap.

7. A 2/6 B40. The Right Tackle false starts just prior to the Center snapping the ball. The Defensive Lineman not reacting to the whistles and flags and seeing the QB with the ball runs into the backfield and throws the Quarterback to the ground.

RULING: A, 2/11 from B’s 45. Then penalize DBF. A, 1/10 from B’s 30. Might need to eject the defensive lineman (depends on severity of hit on QB). Clock status depends on whether or not it was running at time of FS.

[PiggSkin]

Originally posted by Bob M.

2. A 4/10 A4. A99's punt is high and short. B88 is waiting to field the punt. Before the ball can be caught, A77 blows up B88 with a vicious hit at the B40. The ball hits B88 and rolls to the B45 where A66 recovers while grounded. After the hit, but before the ball is recovered, B88 swears at A77. During the play, B78 is flagged for running into the kicker.

Couple of thoughts/questions:

1) The first penalty I see is Kick Catching Interference... This would be the case if B88 were pushed or blasted by A77... Now, since the consensus seems to be that A77 was being a cheap shot artist, he's ejected... We can't give him a KCI and a personal foul... (Can we..?)

2) I have a question of the touching of the kick by B88... Does it make a difference if he's blocked into the ball instead of the ball hitting him after the block..? Consider these scenarios:
a) B88 is blasted and is laying on his back for a second or so when the punt lands on his head.
b) B88 is blasted and the ball hits him before he lands on the ground...

In scenario B, I would say that the touching is definitely ignored... In scenario A, I'm not so sure... (The question says that the ball hits him, not the other way around...)

But in this case, I guess none of that matters...

[James Neil]

Originally posted by PiggSkin

Couple of thoughts/questions:

1) The first penalty I see is Kick Catching Interference... This would be the case if B88 were pushed or blasted by A77... Now, since the consensus seems to be that A77 was being a cheap shot artist, he's ejected... We can't give him a KCI and a personal foul... (Can we..?)

2) I have a question of the touching of the kick by B88... Does it make a difference if he's blocked into the ball instead of the ball hitting him after the block..? Consider these scenarios:
a) B88 is blasted and is laying on his back for a second or so when the punt lands on his head.
b) B88 is blasted and the ball hits him before he lands on the ground...

In scenario B, I would say that the touching is definitely ignored... In scenario A, I'm not so sure... (The question says that the ball hits him, not the other way around...)

But in this case, I guess none of that matters...

First off I believe KCI is a personal foul. Anyway if it’s a “vicious” hit I hope I‘d have the balls to step up and do the right thing and sit the player down. Definitely not an easy call, but one that need to be made. Although in the play it doesn't actually say the touching by B was the result of the vicious hit by A, I think it’s safe to assume so if just for the sake of discussion. In a) it will probably be an “in my judgment” ruling where intent of the rule comes more into play. In b). Its more of a no-brainer, ignore the touching. I’d probably ignore the touching in both cases.



Know the rule book so you know the game - not so you can be over technical

[Bob M.]

REPLY: PiggSkin...I agree -- it's KCI, but that's immaterial because of the double foul. As for the other question, if A's contact causes B to bump into the ball, or prevents him from avoiding contact with a ball (that bumps into him), I believe that both of these contacts by B should be ignored. The bottom line is that in either scenario, B's contact with the ball was a direct and material result of A's contact with B.