Really bad question or just incorrect.?

[Juxone]

In a discussion, there was a "training" statement that I thought was incorrect but was told it wasn't. The statement was "The penalty for illegal touching of a forward pass by an ineligible receiver is enforced from the spot of the touching in each case and includes loss of down..

But Rule 7-5-13 says a forward pass, batted, muffed or caught by an IEP who is BEHIND, IN or BEYOND the NZ is Loss of 5 yards AND loss of down and the enforcement is the BASIC SPOT Did I just understand?

[HLin NC]

Try tricky question.

Think about the definition of basic spot. What is it based on? The basic spot depends on the type of play- running or loose ball.

If an ineligible touched the pass 20 yards downfield and then an A eligible receiver caught it, would you want the enforcement spot to be 20 yards beyond the line of scrimmage?

Reddings has a good example on page 37. EXAMPLE 5-15: 2nd and 10 on the A30. Ineligibile A76 tries to catch A10's forward pass at the (a) A28 or (b) A35 and touches the ball. "RULING: In either case it it is Illegal Touching, a 5 yard penalty with a loss of down. In (a), it will be 3-17 from the A23 (the penalty is enforced from the spot where A76 touched the pass). in (b) it will be 3-15 from the A25 (the penalty is enforced from the previous spot)."

In (a) enforcement was based on All But One- a foul by the team in possession behind the basic spot (loose ball play, previous spot). In (b) enforcement is from the previous spot based on a loose ball play since A76 illegally touched the ball downfield beyond the previous spot.

[Juxone]

Maybe I am overthinking this but the statement seems false. "The penalty for illegal touching of a forward pass by an ineligible receiver is enforced from the spot of the touching in each case and includes loss of down.." So the basic spot would be where the ball was snapped from... this would be foul by the offense and it COULD happen on, behind or forward of the line.. so if it is a foul by the offense and it happened 10 yards forward then the foul would be FROM the line of scrimmage, if the foul happened BEHIND the line then the spot would be WHERE it was touched.... is this not correct? Because the statement "enforced the spot of the touching in EACH CASE" This is a loose ball play.

[HLin NC]

Yes. I would go back to the discussion and bring up the basic spot aspect of enforcement. I would also utilize the example rom Reddings I provided. The case book doesn't have anything on point, as usual.

Whoever wrote the training statement apparently is of the belief that IT is a spot foul for enforcement.

[Juxone]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Yes. I would go back to the discussion and bring up the basic spot aspect of enforcement. I would also utilize the example rom Reddings I provided. The case book doesn't have anything on point, as usual.

Whoever wrote the training statement apparently is of the belief that IT is a spot foul for enforcement.

I think you may be correct, the part of the statement "in each case" is the troubling part. Maybe I am just being pednatic -- the Redding example-- is on point.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Juxone

I think you may be correct, the part of the statement "in each case" is the troubling part. Maybe I am just being pednatic -- the Redding example-- is on point.

Could it be an editing error? Like if it was lifted from a context where 2 or more cases were presented. and it happened to be correct in each of those cases? Like they expected "each case" to reference not every possible case, but each of certain specified cases?

[Juxone]

I think it is just one of those things that where it was more a "stump the chump" rather than a teaching point.

[HLin NC]

Based on the question this is technically not true.

How so?

9-3-7 No member of the kicking team shall initiate contact to(block) an opponent on a free kick until:

a. The legal kick has traveled 10 yards;- Ball is at the 48

b. The kicking team is eligible to recover a free-kicked ball; Ball has travelled 8 yards and has not been touched by R
or
c. The receiving team initiates a block within the neutral zone. "where team R player steps into the neutral zone to recover the kick." No mention of R blocking here.

[Juxone]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

How so?

9-3-7 No member of the kicking team shall initiate contact to(block) an opponent on a free kick until:

a. The legal kick has traveled 10 yards;- Ball is at the 48

b. The kicking team is eligible to recover a free-kicked ball; Ball has travelled 8 yards and has not been touched by R
or
c. The receiving team initiates a block within the neutral zone. "where team R player steps into the neutral zone to recover the kick." No mention of R blocking here.

I guess I missed the word "may" have. Since R does have the option of having the ball kicked or taking the yardage from the spot of the foul Or haveing the yardage assessed where it gain possession? Correct?